Drew Peterson: Defense asks for yet another judge.

Joel Brodsky at Peterson's Mock trial Thursday

Joel Brodsky at Peterson's Mock trial Thursday

UPDATE JUNE 1: Case reassigned to Judge Stephen White

***********************
Drew Peterson’s Attorney Asks For New Judge

CHICAGO (CBS) ― Drew Peterson’s defense attorney has asked for another new judge to be appointed in Peterson’s murder trial.

If Joel Brodsky’s motion is granted, the case would have its third judge.

Last week the Will County state’s attorney had asked that Judge Richard Schoenstedt be removed, on the grounds of bias against the state. Will County Chief Judge Gerald Kinney last Thursday appointed Carla J. Alessio-Policandriotes to oversee the case.

At the time Brodsky challenged the motion and called it gamesmanship and said he would ask for the new judge to be replaced, but later said Judge Alessio-Policandriotes was someone the defense team could work with.

“Frankly, we knew very little about this judge that we were assigned to and we tried to find out as much as we could in the short period of time that was given us,” Brodsky said last week. “And the consensus was that we would stay with her.”

Drew Peterson was involved in the decision to accept a new judge. More important to the defense was avoiding some judges in particular.

“It turned out that there were too many other choices we didn’t want, so rather than roll the dice, we stayed with his judge,” Brodsky had said. “But what I’ve been able to find out about her in the short period of time that we’ve had is that she is very fair-minded.”

Brodsky and the defense team have apparently changed their mind and do want a new judge now.

Read the story at CBS

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321 thoughts on “Drew Peterson: Defense asks for yet another judge.

  1. Brodsky is such a sorry excuse for a lawyer, what reason would they have to ask for another new judge? I hope they do get a new one that is TEN times harsher than the current…

  2. It’s as if they have no plan, no real direction. Just keep confusing the courts with their BS…. Unreal

  3. I can’t see ANY sitting judge that would even consider lowering that bond. He is a huge threat to all stupid women under the age of 25….:-)

    Maybe they think they can get lucky and get one that can be bribed, bought…who knows what rattles around in that empty head of his….

  4. No probs. :-)

    Do you think it’s just time-wasting? (Drew has got to hate the idea of a female judge!)Ultimately it won’t matter. The evidence is the evidence (although there’s always the Illinois Factor lol)

  5. Even if this judge didn’t remember her connection to Drew Peterson and Kathleen Savio, with her name on the OOP, I think she should have reclused herself.

    But Joel has used one of his two Get A New Judge Cards, so I’m glad she didn’t.

  6. Ha! Only one card left, as you say, Noway. The move is probably not exactly a total surprise to the prosecution anyway; Joel did declare that they’d be assholes about everything. LOL (in so many words)

  7. I’m not surprised at all. I think it is because she is female.

    With as much disdain as these 2 knuckleheads have for women, I was actually surprised that he took back the request to change judges last week – or whenever it was.

  8. OT, had to ROFL at this list of Sells-ick’s “featured clients”

    Featured Clients:
    -Rod Blagojevich, Former Illinois Governor
    -Ted Corless, Florida Property Insurance Lawyer
    -Darin Owens, Idaho Football Coach
    -Dr. Jeffrey Jones, dentist turned author
    -Gina Incandela, 7 year old singer
    -Drew Peterson, Former Bolingbrook, Ill. Police Sgt.
    -Trunkettes, the swim trunks for gals

    What would Drew think about being listed below a 7yr-old singer and only just above Trunkettes. (Wot? No Brodsky-Odeh?)

  9. Are they allowed to substitute the judge without giving a reason during the trial? Or just before it begins properly?

  10. Bucket – I think the bigger question is what would a 7yr old’s parents think about being listed with DP?

    Who is that 7yr old anyway? That would need a publicist extraordinaire? ;)

  11. Uhmmmmm, as if Joel Brodsky didn’t know what Judges were likely to be hearing these cases beforehand and didn’t know their history, why would he have been hanging out for Judge Schoenstedt all the time ????????

  12. “the Illinois factor” has always played a big part in Drews ability to keep doing what he’s been doing and one can only hope the States Attorney is right on to that fact !

  13. Dateline nbc is going to do a story about a 2001 bathtub drowing of a wife. Did DP get the idea from this case? Starts at eight o’clock CDT.

  14. Nancy Grace Show reported that additional bones were found today approximately 300 to 500 feet downstream from location of the male bones found last week.

    It is unknown if today’s bones found are related to bones found last week.

  15. I still truly think that Brodsky had thought this judge would recuse herself so he’s still get two more shots at kicking out judges he didn’t want. She didn’t play along with his strategy.

  16. I wonder if the bones they are talking about were the two that were found after the main set of remains. I think they are just behind on their news and that they were no new ones found today.

  17. LOL @ Drew And Brodsky playing cards.

    Were they proper playing cards or did they have the names and faces of all the available Judges on them !

  18. The bones that they are talking about on NG are, I believe, the ones that were found last weekend. I think they just used file audio clips when describing them. I do think, though, that the DNA testing results haven’t been reported on yet.

  19. Didn’t I see somewhere that Drew’s legal team is Brodsky, Abood, Odeh and Carroll plus two assistants? I wonder what qualifies as an assistant?

    Just wondering because that certainly looks like Mrs. Brodsky sitting next to him and Nurse Pauline was also in attendance at the mock trial. He normally resides in California. How did he manage to get a ticket? Or did he not need one?

    Video from the mock trial by Brodsky’s li’l Bitch showing only the defense argument.

  20. http://www.suburbanchicagonews.com/heraldnews/news/1599172,4_1_JO30_PETERSON_S1-090530.article

    Brodsky wants a Chicago judge
    May 30, 2009
    By JOE HOSEY jhosey@scn1.com

    JOLIET — Drew Peterson’s lawyer wanted a Cook County judge to pick who would preside over his client’s murder case.

    Chicago attorney Joel Brodsky, who has repeatedly mentioned the possibility of trying to get Peterson’s case moved out of Will County, might still prefer dealing with a judge from his own hometown. But by Friday afternoon he had backed off the idea.

    Brodsky filed a petition Friday morning asking for a Cook County judge to choose who will sit on the bench for Peterson’s murder case.

    Less than five hours later, he put in a new petition asking that the matter be left up to Will County Judge Richard Schoenstedt.

    Only last week, State’s Attorney James Glasgow accused Schoenstedt of unspecified bias and succeeded — over Brodsky’s objection — in having him removed from the case.

    Now Brodsky is not only looking to get Schoenstedt back in the mix, but he wants the judge assigned in his place, Carla Allesio Policandriotes, out of the picture.

    In his petition, he said he “fears that (Peterson) will not receive a fair and impartial trial from” Policandriotes.

    First-degree murder

    Peterson faces a pair of first-degree murder charges in connection with the March 2004 apparent bathtub drowning of his third wife, Kathleen Savio. He was indicted and arrested on the charges earlier this month.
    In a hearing last week, Brodsky accused Policandriotes of ordering Peterson to pay child support to Savio during their divorce proceedings. Policandriotes said this was impossible, as she has never been on the county’s divorce call.

    Brodsky later admitted he thought he read about Policandriotes’ involvement in a newspaper.
    Still, in the amended petition he filed Friday afternoon, Brodsky repeated his “fear” of Policandriotes’ lack of fairness and also lumped in Judge Daniel Rozak, claiming he was afraid Rozak was also incapable of fairness.
    Brodsky failed to respond to questions about why he asked for a Cook County judge to get involved in the case, or if he believed this was even a possibility.

    ‘Personal contact visits’

    Brodsky was not the only lawyer on the case filing motions this week. On Wednesday, Glasgow asked whichever judge does end up hearing the case to forbid attorneys from leaking information contained in discovery evidence.

    Glasgow is now also asking the court to order Brodsky and Peterson to cut out their jailhouse card games.
    Glasgow filed a motion alleging Brodsky showed up for a May 24 visit with Peterson at 1:10 p.m. Ten minutes later, according to the motion, Peterson and Brodsky were playing cards.

    Glasgow said in the motion that this “is not an appropriate use” of the special “personal contact visits” granted May 18 by Judge Gerald Kinney, and that Kinney’s order, as it stands, “singles out Drew Peterson for preferential treatment as opposed to other inmates” in the jail.

    Glasgow asked the court to order Brodsky to converse with Peterson through a videoconference system “unless some specific need for contact arises.”

    And in the event it does, Glasgow wants Brodsky to schedule a day ahead and notify jail staff of how many visitors Peterson will have.

    Brodsky failed to respond to questions about what card game he and Peterson allegedly played, and whether he won or lost to his client.

  21. New SMM post:

    http://murphymilanojournal.blogspot.com/2009/05/drew-peterson-continues-slapping.html

    …We learned that wife #2, Vicky Connelly, almost died in 1991 when Peterson came into the bar they owned one night and sent Vicky home early. He had never done that before. Vicky thought it was strange.

    She and a girlfriend headed home but they never made it to their destination. Instead, she and her passenger landed in the hospital, both with near death injuries. It seems someone tampered with the brakes on Vicky’s car and they went over an embankment. This was also around the time Peterson was dating Kathleen Savio.

  22. OMG!!! Man, you can’t make it up!!! Well, if SMM knows then LE will, too. Yikes.

    Musical judges. By saying he doesn’t want Rozak either, doesn’t that count as his second and last choice? Prosecution rejects the one judge but now Brodders wants Schoenstedt to choose another? Cook County? Is he tripping?

  23. May 30, 2009

    BY DAN ROZEK Staff Reporter drozek@suntimes.com

    A week after a Will County judge refused to lower Drew Peterson’s $20 million bail, defense attorneys asked Friday that Judge Carla Alessio Policandriotes be removed from the case because of bias.

    They also asked that Judge Daniel Rozak not be assigned to the ex-cop’s high-profile murder proceedings.

    The motion contends the veteran trial judges are “prejudiced against the defendant.”

    Defense attorney Joel Brodsky called the legal move routine in major murder cases. Peterson, 55, a retired Bolingbrook cop is charged with drowning his third wife, Kathleen Savio.

    Peterson has been in a Will County jail since he was arrested May 7. At a May 22 bond hearing, Policandriotes refused a defense request to slash his $20 million bail, which requires him to post $2 million to be released from custody. During that hearing, defense attorneys contended Policandriotes had signed documents related to the Peterson-Savio divorce and asked her to consider voluntarily withdrawing from the case. She refused, saying she didn’t remember having any role in the divorce case.

    Will County prosecutors filed a similar substitution request that resulted in Judge Richard Schoenstedt being removed from the case. Defense attorneys initially balked at having Policandriotes assigned to Peterson’s case, but recanted and agreed to accept her.

    These substitutions mean both prosecutors and defense attorneys have used up their allotted challenges, so the next judge assigned likely will end up presiding over the case. Will County Chief Judge Gerald Kinney will assign a new judge, likely at Peterson’s June 17 court hearing.

    http://www.suntimes.com/news/peterson/1599056,CST-NWS-drew30.article

  24. I’m thinking if JB keeps on disrespecting the system, all the judges will be prejudiced against him. You think it’s possible JB and assistants are working hard to entertain and keep DP sweet? Ya never know what he’ll say or do, especially if he’s bored. Now, if he were to fire JB that would leave JB….nowhere.

  25. No wonder Vicki C. didn’t want to talk to the press. Terrified! He could have killed 2 that night! Because of where we heard this do you think this is the shocking thing she and Hosey have known about for many weeks?

  26. WOW. Brodsky accusing all of these judges of not being fair? It’s a wonder he can walk – with those big cojones. ;)

  27. The Buffoonsky wants to control this entire trial and thats because this is about him and not ” the thing “.
    Publicity and what he believes are clever legal maneuverings. When the thing is locked up for good, his pet jackass will still need to feed the monkey.

  28. LOL it’s worse than I thought!(my memory) I can’t remember Vicki’s crash from the book at all!

  29. The motion contends the veteran trial judges are “prejudiced against the defendant.”

    +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

    It is blatantly obvious the only Judge not “prejudiced against the Defendant” is the one that is going to be ruling in his favor (!)

  30. In other words – no Judge can ever make a ruling against the Defendant or he’ll be accused of prejudice.

    So where is Joel going to go with that stalemate ??

  31. I hope the judge will grant the gag. It would be nice for the sake of justice and the dignity of the court if the evidence and testimony can be kept for the jury to examine in a civilised way. As much as I want to know all as soon as possible, it would be much better for it to inhabit an atmosphere of gravitas.

  32. Next court hearing is on will county docket

    PETERSON DREW W 6 17 9 407 930 09CF001048 0 MURDER/INTENT TO 1 Pretrial

  33. Is it common practice for an Attorney to present a whole wash list of Judges he doesn’t like and to insist on a Judge from another County (WTF) ??

  34. KAUPAS is Will County sheriff, Paul Kaupas .

    [SNIP]

    BROOKS: Now out to Derek Armstrong. What do we know about a motion today in court that basically says Joel Brodsky, he was visiting Drew and he was playing cards during a contact visit?

    (ON THE PHONE)

    DEREK ARMSTRONG, AUTHOR, DREW PETERSON EXPOSED, INTERVIEWED DREW PETERSON: Yes. In the motion, basically, which was designed to restrict visiting, the — William Glasgow`s motion said that he was just playing cards there with his lawyer anyway.

    I actually talked to Joel Brodsky today to ask him about that, and he laughed and said basically, “I`d been visiting people in jail for 25 years and you have to put them at ease, so I played cards with him and talked about the case.”

    BROOKS: Sheriff, is that normal? Attorneys coming in and playing cards?

    KAUPAS: No. Normally, we have no face-to-face interviews with inmates and visitors. We have a separate building, which is what we call video visitation. They see their loved ones on a monitor, and they talk to them on the telephone.

    BROOKS: Great.

    KAUPAS: But I was given a court order to have attorneys come in and see him face to face. That`s why the Glasgow`s office said — made a motion today to amend that because the original motion gave six attorneys daily visits.

    BROOKS: Oh, nice. So.

    KAUPAS: And I didn`t want that.

    BROOKS: Yes, no, no. Joel Brodsky, attorney slash buddy, card- playing buddy. I can`t believe that. You know you can`t make this stuff up, folks.

    http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0905/29/ng.01.html

  35. DEREK ARMSTRONG, AUTHOR, DREW PETERSON EXPOSED, INTERVIEWED DREW PETERSON: Yes. In the motion, basically, which was designed to restrict visiting, the — William Glasgow`s motion said that he was just playing cards there with his lawyer anyway.

    ***********

    If Derek Armstrong reads here, let me be the first to say that the State’s Attorney in Will County is James Glasgow. Oh, and when you talk to Brodsky again, tell him we’re still waiting for the news that Attorney John Kelly was laughed out of court in asking that Peterson’s bond not be reduced. The only laughter we’re hearing is directed the other way. ;-)

  36. I wond…scratch that! I am curious what the process is for the replacement of a Judge during pre-trial? Is there a set rotation in place providing they are free to sit or are they assigned by the Chief Judge? Thanks in advance if anyone knows!

  37. Msbloggess – When Glasgow asked for the original judge’s replacement, the Chief Judge made the appointment of the new judge. Maybe he should appoint himself to hear this, this, ……

    Hmm, I’m having trouble deciding what to call this. But pissing contest does come to mind.

  38. Thanks Rescue…I try to keep my eye on the prize…the trial in full swing! But, sometimes it’s not so easy! :)

  39. ” Maybe he should appoint himself to hear this, ”
    …that would put the Drew crew in their place imo. Ask for the Chief Judge to be replaced probably would’t sit well with the Chief Judge. Then maybe he would replace himself with one who JB doesn’t want for sure. Quite the chess game.

  40. snipped from post above:

    Chicago attorney Joel Brodsky, who has repeatedly mentioned the possibility of trying to get Peterson’s case moved out of Will County, might still prefer dealing with a judge from his own hometown. But by Friday afternoon he had backed off the idea.

    Brodsky filed a petition Friday morning asking for a Cook County judge to choose who will sit on the bench for Peterson’s murder case.

    Less than five hours later, he put in a new petition asking that the matter be left up to Will County Judge Richard Schoenstedt.

    Brodsky has to be one of the dumbest lawyers ever. How stupid is it to file motions and then repeal them right afterwards? He’s already done this twice now. Guess he missed or slept through the class where they taught “don’t piss off the judges” in Law 101.

  41. Let’s see.

    Brodksy: Drew will never, never, ever be charged in either criminal matter.

    *****

    Brodsky: Lost a circuit court ruling regarding the Savio estate, and said it was wrong; appealed to the Appellate Court and they upheld the lower court’s ruling; appealed to the Illinois Supreme Court and they denied hearing the case.

    Brodsky: Went all over the media circuit and said the bond is excessive and it will reduced. Nope, didn’t happen.

    Brodsky: Said Attorney John Kelly would be laughed out of court for submitting a letter asking that Peterson’s bond not be reduced, so he could not use the funds they maintain he illegally gained by fraud involving his ex-wife’s probate estate. Nope, didn’t happen.

    Brodsky: Argued against allowing the State to have the judge replaced. Nope lost that one.

    Brodsky: Argued against having Judge Policandriotes appointed to the case, and then backed down.

    Brodsky: Asked Judge Policandriotes to recuse herself because he thought he read in a newspaper she had previously been involved in the Savio/Peterson divorce. Nope, lost that round.

    Filed a motion to have a Cook County Circuit Judge appoint the judge that will hear the Peterson case. Then, rescinded that motion five hours later.

    Went to have a face-to-face legal consultation with his client but, instead, played cards with him.

    You just can’t make this stuff up.

  42. As the other do the job for Brodsky, and he is just a pawn in the case, what else could he do with Drew than paying cards and talk about chicken wings?

    The whole stuff with the motions and so on is to make a mess so that the system got lost in it and then take advantage of it. This is just the beginning. Drew’s attorneys know very well that Drew is not the only ‘client’ of the overloaded jurisdical system.
    Asking for the judge replacement is a simple move to have a not well prepared judge as well. It is very time-consuming to read all the documents and survey the evidence. It is easy to get lost in it.

    What I like about Glasgow that he respects his enemy and does not treat Brodsky&Co. as a bunch of idiots.

    Everything above is my own opinion. All rights reserved LOL.

    BTW, Judge Policandriotes said the truth. She was ruling on KS’s protection order, not the divorce.

  43. Some states do have stipulations against changing judges for reasons unconnected to the judge (i.e., in order to delay the trial). They can charge the attorney with unprofessional conduct if that’s the case.

    I don’t think that’s Joel’s intent here though. I think he has his eye on some particular judge. I wonder who that might be.

  44. I don’t know, maybe we’re just not seeing the whole picture, and what Brodsky is attempting to accomplish, or the appearance he’s trying to give. I see it as inept, unprofessional, goofy, unorganized. Maybe I’m missing something, and the “white noise” and the appearance of not being prepared or organized is a strategy.

    There must be a logical explanation. Right?

  45. To save face with his children (teenage sons)

    A logical explanation?

    The ‘Actor’ that he is, DP has always portrays himself as the ‘victim’.

    JB takes his directions from his client who makes all the decisions regardless of his attorney’s advice.

    DP & JB know that he will be found guilty so they will try to show his sons that he fought tooth and nail to prove his innocence … but alas, the whole world is against him.

  46. harleyjoey Says:
    May 30, 2009 at 7:51 am

    WOW. Brodsky accusing all of these judges of not being fair? It’s a wonder he can walk – with those big cojones. ;)
    * * * * * * * * *

    That’s not cojones, that’s some kind of ballast he’s acquired to cope with his air head.

  47. IMHO buffoonsky is planning for his own future..new clients or a book perhaps ? Even bad attention is attention and that translates into free advertizing.

    The buffoon just wants to run the entire show. I think JG has much bigger cajones than WOW once thought.

  48. The only lawyering Joel Brodsky is familiar with is deceit, taken advantage and corruption of the system, pretty much the same as Drews Police work over the years, so as far as that’s concerned they are a very good match !

    Their mockery of the system must be a real headache to professional and intelligent people such as the States Attorney, Prosecution, Judges, investigators etc as how does one deal with this continual nonsense ??

  49. I’m astounded Joel submits such unprofessional motions, like they are written by a child and then challenges his own work by changing his mind again and again sometimes as early as the next sentence – LOL !

    I’m even more astounded Joel challenged Judge Carla and then retracted his statement by saying he “read it in the paper”

    This is a Defense laywer talking to a Judge in a Courtroom (!!)

    How is this possible ???

  50. The Judge in the mock trial is a retired Cook County Judge and Joel Brodsky also has a brother who is a Judge, but I can’t remember where (!)

  51. I wonder…Considering all the delays that are coming …when will the two time murderer go on trial ?? Hmmmm

    Months, Years, Decades ??

  52. Thank you docsdaughter,

    I’m beginning to wonder, can you bring your own judge to a trial, similar to bringing your own horse to an equestrian event – LOL !

  53. Wonder – I think these things can take a long, long time to actually start a trial – especially if there are any pre-trial appeals on the admittance of evidence.

    My sister-in-law’s nephew was one of the 5 teens killed in the Oswego crash in February 2007. The 23-year-old woman that was driving (with a .124 BAC according to the hospital) crammed 8 kids in her car. She has still not been brought to trial even though she was almost immediately charged.

    The judge ruled that the statments the police obtained while she was in the hospital were not admissable and the prosecutors are appealing that. It is my understanding there is also right now some kind of fight going on about moving the trial elsewhere.

    The sad thing is that due to the time that the appeal process takes, the judge took her off house arrest and has allowed the family to not keep their house on the list towards her 1.5M bond. So she’s basically walking around living life as she did before the accident while the.

    The wheels of justice turn very, very slowly.

  54. Yes, luvee,
    how could we forget? He thought he might get away with keeping a big lump of cash that belonged to the deceased client of his former law partner…oh, and he forged the dead man’s signature to do so!

    He took the money in cash so it would be safe in his safe (no record in any account of his) and didn’t tell anyone. He swore that he even returned the money when found out in the same cash notes. The bank swore that was not true! (why would the banker lie?)

    I think forgery and theft from clients should be unforgivable in an officer of the court, but, hey, call me old fashioned.

  55. Good morning.
    Thanks, luvee. Great link where we can learn about Brodsky’s case in details.
    I wonder if he has never been criminaly charged for forgering this signature. That’s very interesting.

  56. Thank you TAI for your information. I had a feeling it was going to be awhile, was just wondering ( as usual ) if anyone knew how much time were looking at. I guess time will tell. Thank you again.

    Oh and Keep on Thinking. ;)

  57. February 15, 2002 HEARING (Brodsky’s forgery):

    “Several witnesses, including a judge and a Chicago police officer, testified to Respondent’s upstanding reputation for truthfulness and veracity. Two additional witnesses discussed work that Respondent had done for them on a pro bono basis. Donald Utrosa believed that Respondent was single-handedly responsible for bringing his wife’s son to the United States from Romania. Robert Kleinberg credited Respondent with negotiating a reduced sentence for Kleinberg’s son in a substance abuse matter and with providing continuous support and assistance to the Kleinberg family.

  58. cyrhla Says: “Several witnesses,
    including a judge and a Chicago police officer…….

    *******

    Just so I am clear, you bolded that part why again?

  59. Cyrhla, I’d shy away from making too much of the fact that a judge and PO testified on behalf of Joel Brodsky. He’s in the legal field — those are the people he works with.

    Now, if the statement was that the judge was his own brother and that the cop was Drew Peterson, it would be interesting, but since Drew was never on the Chicago police force, we know that couldn’t have been the case. As for the judge, who knows? Do you?

  60. I’m trying to understand how pro bono clients can vouch for his truthfulness and veracity. I’ll bet anything Kleinberg is a friend.

  61. Heh, doesn’t that NE story just sound so Armie-ish? Of all the mainstream papers, cable news outlets, and local news outlets, it takes the NE to get the “real” story from “sources?”

    Somebody stuff a sock in guy’s mouth!

  62. I did not want to say this was Brodsky’s brother and Drew Peterson. I just find it pretty funny (I think this is not a right word) that you ask a friend or two from LE to come to the court (or else) and testify that you are an honest person and it helps, though you committed a crime.
    Brodsky forged the signatures and got away with it. I guess the decision of the Board helped him avoid further criminal charges.

    Didn’t you find it a little similar to KS’s coroner’s jury ( I did, and that is why I put this section in bold letters)? In this (Brodsky’s) case the names of the judge and the policeman were not given. BTW, Donald Utrosa lived in BB at that time (now he is dead).

    After reading all the documents, I had impression that the Board had to punish Brodsky because they had to do it, not that they wanted to because he simply deserved it.
    You or me, I guess, would go to prison for any signature forgery, am I right? I realize that the Board did not decide on that but the question is why he has never been charged with it (has he?!)?

    He knows how to manipulate the System. :)

  63. cyrhla Says:
    May 31, 2009 at 10:40 am edit

    Didn’t you find it a little similar to KS’s coroner’s jury ( I did, and that is why I put this section in bold letters)? In this (Brodsky’s) case the names of the judge and the policeman were not given. BTW, Donald Utrosa lived in BB at that time (now he is dead).

    ***********

    Cyrhla – I can’t speak for anyone else, of course, but, in answer to your question as asked in the paragraph above, no. My answer is no, I didn’t.

    I guess where I am at in this new investigation, in both Kathleen’s case and Stacy’s, is that the people involved now are trying to make a previously wrong into a right. I’ve heard both families, the people who have the most to gain (or lose, for that matter), publicly support the current investigators and State’s Attorney. So, in that regard, I take that into consideration and assume they feel that the ongoing investigations are in good hands.

  64. Rescue, I absolutely believe the investigation is in good hands now and my post has nothing to do with the ongoing investigation.

  65. The NE says Drew entered Kathleen’s house using a key he copied from one of his sons.

    Hmm. I figured he had programmed a garage door opener.

  66. It’s not likely that Kathleen would have armed her boys with an extra set of keys to enter that house on their weekend visits with Dad given that he had drawn a knife to her neck the previous July. Drew knew that house like the back of his hand, and according to Ric Mims was armed himself with a set of locksmith tools. He never let Kathleen’s attempt to keep him out by installing a deadbolt stop him before. IIRC, he cut through drywall. Nothing would have stopped Drew from entering that house when he decided he wanted her dead.

    The part that really ticks me off is NE’s whorish behavior of pointing the finger at Mary Pontarelli as the next door “secret witness” to shine the spotlight on and be harrassed at this juncture. She was Kathleen’s best friend, and she’s kept silent throughout and behaved exactly as you’d hope a best friend would behave given these circumstances. NE lives up to their “rag” reputation on this one, IMO.

  67. I realize now that the garage door would have drawn too much attention (noise) at that hour. I agree that Kathleen would not have given her boys a key. Drew would have been too likely to “borrow” it. I guess Drew picking the lock is more likely.

  68. Facs, I’ll go back and look at photos of the house, but maybe there is a door from the garage to the house and a door from garage to the backyard?

    That’s the one I picture Drew picking.

    Many people don’t lock the door between the garage and their house especially if they go into the garage on a regular basis (have a freezer there, for example).

  69. I seem to recall reading some time ago that Drew made his way into her house at one point by lifting and dislodging some sliding glass doors, too. He knew that house well enough that nothing could keep him out. He had it figured out how to get in and out of there quickly long before he snuck through the neighborhood (probably in dark clothing and looking rather inconspicuous)under the cover of darkness to do his final handiwork on poor Kathleen.

  70. The Options dartboard. You write your theories down (or that of a crack investigator LOL), put each one on a dartboard and throw darts.

    Ta-da ! You have your story.

  71. Exactly, that’s what NE has done on this one. All of us who’ve been following this on a daily basis for the past year and a half would undoubtedly come up with more logical scenarios than they’ve come up with on this one.

  72. I think it is possible that Drew copied one of the boys’ keys. I had a similar fear of my ex copying the children’s key, but it was one of those issues that I had to wrestle with. They would want to know why and I felt I couldn’t say. I was still trying to bend over backwards not to alarm the kids, and if I told them, they wouldn’t have believed it and/or told him.

    So. They kept their keys.

  73. People of good character don’t defraud anyone, let alone dead people, so is it fair to say the Judge and Police Officer vouching for Joel Brodsky’s good character were either erroneous in their statements or don’t know the definition of “good character” !!

  74. sugarbabes4 Says:
    May 31, 2009 at 12:56 pm

    It’s not likely that Kathleen would have armed her boys with an extra set of keys to enter that house on their weekend visits with Dad given that he had drawn a knife to her neck the previous July. Drew knew that house like the back of his hand, and according to Ric Mims was armed himself with a set of locksmith tools. He never let Kathleen’s attempt to keep him out by installing a deadbolt stop him before. IIRC, he cut through drywall. Nothing would have stopped Drew from entering that house when he decided he wanted her dead.
    —————————————–
    Not to mention that Drew’s brother, Paul, was a licensed locksmith in the state of Illinois. They say it’s illegal for a cop to have locksmith tools, but who says you can’t borrow a few for the sake of expediency!!!

  75. History has shown Drew got into Kathleens house whenever he wanted to whether she was home or not.

    A guy with the ability of ordering a hit on his wife is not going to let a closed door get in this way when he finally wants her dead (!!)

  76. LOCKED DOORS ONLY KEEP THE HONEST PEOPLE OUT!

    this is what my granddaddy always told me!

    if a person means someone harm they will find a way in and he’s admitted to doing it…oooops! those words will come back to haunt him!

    I want to know who the locksmith was???? Was it someone the department used for welfare checks or was it someone Drew found in the phone book…or was it his brother!?

    whoever it was could shed some serious light on the circumstances of entering her home that night and also could as to time line…WHO WAS THE LOCKSMITH!!??

  77. Found interesting article,
    Proposed law may give a new look to case of missing girl
    Rachel Mellon disappeared 12 years ago. Could legislation help solve the mystery?
    Her name may not be as well known as Lisa Stebic or Stacy Peterson, but the similarly unexplained disappearance of a young Bolingbrook girl more than 12 years ago remains a haunting mystery.

    Rachel Marie Mellon was 13 when she vanished Jan. 31, 1996. That bitter-cold morning, the bubbly seventh-grader stayed home from school sick with a flu bug, resting in a pink sweat shirt, yellow sweat pants and slippers.

    That evening, she was gone. read more at

    http://www.dailyherald.com/story/?id=226896

  78. Grandam, were you aware that the date of that article was 8/11/2008? I believe the law they were discussing in that article was signed into law by former Gov. Blagojevich last December.

  79. thinkaboutit2 Says:

    May 29, 2009 at 8:16 pm
    I still truly think that Brodsky had thought this judge would recuse herself so he’s still get two more shots at kicking out judges he didn’t want. She didn’t play along with his strategy.

    +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

    LOL, I think you may be right !

    and when that didn’t work, Brodsky decided to draw up his own list of Judges he doesn’t want, which is akin to his statement in his Motion To Reduce The Bond that Drew doesn’t want his passport back until the matter is resolved – LOL

  80. WHO WAS THE LOCKSMITH!!??

    +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

    Isn’t that the million dollar question ?

    Will the real locksmith please step forward – LOL !

  81. sugarbabes4, I believe they were taking about the hearsay law. They say it was sent to the gov. for his consideration.
    ———————
    Glasgow and Wilhelmi said they believe the governor will soon sign it into law. A spokesman for Blagojevich said Monday he is reviewing it.

  82. Oh! I just had a thought (about time, lol)Perhaps Mary had a key. A best friend who also was a neighbour may very well have been given a key.

    Was there another man present when Mary arrived with a key? Was this other man introduced to the Pontarellis as a locksmith? And then he scrammed.

  83. Grandam, former Governor Blagojevich did sign the Hearsay Bill into law in December, 2008, before he was impeached and thrown out of office in January or February of this year.

  84. No, you’re fine, Bucket. I could see Kathleen giving Mary a key in lieu of taking a chance on Drew getting a key away from one of the boys. I’ve always felt that locksmith story was hinky from day one. I’ve always thought it made absolutely no sense for a police officer to have gone about entering that house the way the story has been yarned. All the more reason he should have followed protocol with that house belonging to his ex-wife and the history of the contentious divorce well known among his colleagues and those neighbors. The only story I will believe is from Mary Pontarelli’s lips.

  85. Going way back to those first couple of days after Stacy’s disappearance, the police were doing searches of the house. Drew had refused to allow them to search the car, but he gave them permission to search the SUV. Drew even went so far as to ask Sharon if he could “hide” the car in her garage–Sharon refused. It was later stated that he and Stephen had to go to a “friend’s house” to retrieve the car from the friend’s garage. As I recall, they were only gone a short time before returning to the house.

    What if Stacy’s body was still in the trunk of the car when he refused to give consent for it to be searched (remember the cadaver dogs hit on the trunk of that car)?

    I have long felt that Drew hid that car in Steve Carcerano’s garage. It would have been very easy for him, during those first few nights, to sneak out of the house late at night and walk down to Steve’s house–just as he had done a few years before on the night that he murdered Kathleen.

    Under the cover of darkness, he could have removed Stacy’s body from the trunk of the car, and then buried her body somewhere in Steve’s backyard. Since Drew did landscaping as a side job, he would know how to make the landscaping look as though it had never been disturbed.

    Just a thought.

  86. Good morning!

    Myabelle..things that make me go “ewwww”! He certainly did not want Stacy’s car to be examined and the time he said he’d been landscaping smelled to many… and I guess that would be a concrete reason for Stevie Cacereenio’s devotion.

    How brazen of them if they are telling a story that would be different from Mary’s. Did Drew think he scared her enough to say nothing? Did Mary notice perhaps which kind of papers were all over the bed?

    Sometimes I think I’m good for nothing but asking questions. lol

  87. The more I think about it, the funnier it is to me that Brodsky pitched up at the mock trial. That really made him look like an amateur. Hope it doesn’t try to wrap Drew’s problems in the flag the way “the shark” did(lol…doesn’t look much like a shark, does he?…”the elephant seal” just doesn’t have the same ring. lol)

  88. My whole problem with Drew in Kathleen’s case is that he didn’t force entry when he came back to the house. He waited for an alibi. Since it has been reported a few times before that he went in when he wanted in by any means, this is just not his character. He didn’t do it when he brought the boys back, “look, daddy knocked but mommy didn’t answer.” If I was trying to return my kids after a weekend visit and they weren’t answering I would have been calling and checking with neighbors and relatives, nope Drew just “assumed he had them the extra day.” Goes to work and then returns later and waits for the discovery. Drew is not a stand outside the door kind of guy.

  89. I think confusion can arise about whether the-whole-holiday-weekend-or-not when people are barely speaking, but I would guess that he would have been pretty annoyed if that were the case, and been on the phone like mad and going around to bash on the door, not just slink away til the next day.

  90. The question is why, if the boys has a key, didn’t he take them to the house with him to check if Kathleen is OK. I think you are right, charmed, that he wanted alibi of adult people, not the children. On the other hand, IMO, he couldn’t have stood seeing the boy discover Kathleen. We all know, Drew knew Kathleen was inside and dead.

    I wonder if Carcerano or Mary saw this locksmith at all. If my memory serves me well, Drew first informed Mary and SC that there must be something wrong with Kathleen, and he asked them to wait for his call as the locksmith was to come. So he could have called them after the doors were already opened (by him). If he had called the locksmith, he would have asked Drew for documents (they were divorced). However, if there was a locksmith and a locksmith saw a policeman, who knows? Is it something normal that the police calls in for such services? I think they do it using their own people, but I may be wrong.

  91. I wonder when Drew first contacted Mary or was contacted by Mary.

    I remember reading that he said something like “it wasn’t like Kathleen to not have been seen or heard from the whole weekend” and wondered how he knew she hadn’t been (by anybody, I mean).

    Did he contact Kathleen’s family? Did he contact her boyfriend?

  92. For some reason, these days Liz is using her Twitter account to respond to someone who tweeted that Joel needs a better-fitting suit:

    “hey since when what’s a lawyer wears is an indication of his ability to defend his client! Do you work for brioni! ?
    9:16 PM May 21st from web in reply to pavkah”

    “read his credentials! I have had slick attorneys represent me who charged an arm And a leg only to find them clueless!
    about 2 hours ago from web in reply to “

  93. Heh, here you have a lawyer who is defending his client in the most unorthodox way possible, and then you have his wife defending him on how he defends his client.

    You can’t make this stuff up.

  94. http://cbs2chicago.com/topstories/Drew.Peterson.court.2.1026566.html

    Drew Peterson Back In Court Over Judge Issue

    JOLIET, Ill. (AP) – Chicago Sun-Times

    Drew Peterson is back in court for a hearing on whether yet another new judge should be appointed in the high-profile murder case.

    The Will County state’s attorney’s office says the main issue Monday is defense lawyers’ bid to replace Judge Carla Alessio-Policandriotes. Two weeks ago, she was picked to replace another judge at the prosecutor’s request.

    Prosecutors say other motions could also be dealt with Monday, including a state request to seal discovery.

    Peterson is charged with first-degree murder in the 2004 death of his third wife, Kathleen Savio. The former Bolingbrook police officer pleaded not guilty and is jailed on $20 million bond.

    Peterson’s fourth wife, Stacy Peterson, has been missing since 2007.

    Peterson’s been named a suspect in her disappearance.

  95. Tweets from Publicity Agency

    “Developing Story: Joel Brodsky in Joliet, Ill. courtroom for unplanned hearing on Drew Peterson…
    about 2 hours ago from web ”

    “Breaking News: Drew peterson Case re-assigned to Judge Stephen White…”

  96. First of all, let me say that this is one of my favorite websites! I thoroughly enjoy reading all of your posts, and have learned so much.
    One thing has always bothered me, and until now I’ve never had anyone to ask. Hope you don’t mind.
    I understand lividity and rigor mortis, but how cold Kathleen have had the blood pooled on BOTH SIDES?
    According to the EMT report,
    “On assessment, found patient on left side in bathtub with wet hair and molting and pooling to the right shoulder and left elbow”
    ***
    That just seems an almost impossible position to be in.
    And one more thing-does lividity set in after rigor mortis has passed?
    I’ll check back later, but thank you so much for this forum.

  97. Peterson gets new judge

    http://www.suburbanchicagonews.com/bolingbrooksun/news/1601353,Peterson-new-judge_JO060109.article

    June 1, 2009
    From Staff Reports

    JOLIET — A new judge was assigned Monday to the Drew Peterson case.

    In response to the defense’s motion to substitute the judge, Chief Judge Gerald Kinney assigned the case to Circuit Judge Stephen White.

    White scheduled a hearing for 1:30 p.m., Wednesday at the Will County Courthouse on the prosecution’s motion to seal discovery filings and an anticipated objection to the state’s motion by the defense.

    The former Bolingbrook police sergeant faces two counts of first-degree murder in the 2004 death of his third wife, Kathleen Savio.

  98. FYI:

    Judge Gerald R. Kinney of Joliet became chief judge of the 12th Circuit on Dec. 1, succeeding Stephen D. White. The new chief judge is a 1975 graduate of the Loyola University School of Law and a past president of the Will County Bar Association.

    Judge Kinney was appointed to the circuit court in 1994 and elected in 1996, and has been presiding judge of the Felony Division and Civil Division. He serves on the board of the Illinois Judges Association.

    Newly elected 12th Circuit Judges J. Jeffrey Allen (2nd Subcircuit) and Paula A. Gomora (4th Subcircuit) were sworn in Dec. 1 to replace retiring judges Robert C. Lorz and Rodney B. Lechwar. Sarah Jones was elected to the new 3rd Subcircuit.

  99. In order to qualify for the office of Chief Judge, a judge must have been in active service on the court for at least one year, be under the age of 65, and have not previously served as Chief Judge. A vacancy in the office of Chief Judge is filled by the judge highest in seniority among the group of qualified judges. The Chief Judge serves for a term of seven years or until age 70, whichever occurs first. The age restrictions are waived if no members of the court would otherwise be qualified for the position. Unlike the Chief Justice of the United States, a Chief Judge returns to active service after the expiration of his or her term and does not create a vacancy on the bench by the fact of his or her promotion. See 28 U.S.C. § 45

  100. Monday, May 18, 2009
    Judges Drew Peterson Could Face

    Excerpt:

    Stephen White

    The former Chief Judge until last fall, White spent his time as a prosecutor before assuming the bench. His retirement will trigger a sub-circuit election in New Lenox, Frankfort and Homer Glen townships.

    Elected as a Republican; Retained twice.

    Illinois Review

    http://illinoisreview.typepad.com/illinoisreview/2009/05/judges-drew-peterson-could-face.html

    *****************
    ISBA Bar News 5/ Jan. 15, ’03

    Judge Stephen D. White of Joliet was elected chief judge of the 12th Circuit on Dec. 10. He succeeds Rodney B. Lechwar, who served for five years. Judge White was elected to the court in 1996 after a one-year appointment that followed four years as an associate judge.

  101. Circuit Judges

    Hon. Carla J. Alessio-Policandriotes
    Hon. Amy Bertani-Tomczak
    Hon. Stephen D. White
    Hon. Susan T. O’Leary
    Hon. Daniel J. Rozak (pre-emptive)
    Hon. Richard C. Schoenstedt
    Hon. Richard Siegel
    Hon. Edward P. Petka
    Hon. Paula Gomora
    Hon. Sarah Jones
    Hon. J. Jeffery Allen
    Hon. William McMenamin

  102. Isn’t it like Glenn these days to imagine that the public is interested in his reaction to the events and news surrounding his clients? Does he think he’s the newsmaker now?

    Brodsky’s reaction, OK.

  103. http://www.chicagobreakingnews.com/2009/06/a-3rd-judge-for-the-drew-peterson-case.html

    A 3rd judge for the Drew Peterson case

    June 1, 2009 12:35 PM

    For the second time, the judge in the Drew Peterson murder case has been replaced.

    Will County Chief Judge Gerald Kinney today assigned the case to Circuit Judge Stephen White.

    The move came in response to the defense’s motion for a judge other than Carla Alessio Policandriotes, who was earlier handed the case, or Daniel Rozak. Kinney said he found that the defense’s motion “does appear to meet the criteria.”

    Policandriotes had replaced Judge Richard Schoenstedt. Prosecutors asked for Schoenstedt’s removal, asserting that he was prejudiced against them. Schoenstedt last year dismissed two unlawful use of a weapon charges against Peterson after the state’s attorney’s office refused to give Peterson’s legal team internal police memos, e-mails and other correspondence relating to his arrest in May.

    Peterson’s attorney, Joel Brodsky, didn’t specify why he wanted a different judge. Earlier, Will County State’s Atty. James Glasgow, who is prosecuting the case, said in court he didn’t oppose the motion, saying it is “a statutory right.”

    Policandriotes handled a small part of the 2002 divorce case between Peterson and Kathleen Savio, signing an early order setting child support and awarding Savio temporary custody of their children.

    Peterson is alleged to have killed Savio in 2004 after they had divorced but before financial and other matters had been settled.

    Peterson, who has pleaded not guilty, appeared twice in court Monday; first before Judge Kinney and then later in front of White.

    Dressed in a dark gray jail jersey and pants, and shackled and manacled, Peterson appeared sober and attentive. Aside from the media and lawyers, the hearings appeared to draw little interest.

    Judge White scheduled a hearing for 1:30 p.m., Wednesday, to hear the prosecution’s motion to seal discovery filings and an anticipated objection to the state’s motion by the defense.

    –By Dennis Sullivan

  104. http://www.prnewschannel.com/absolutenm/templates/?a=1433&z=79

    New Judge Assigned in the Drew Peterson Case

    thepublicityagency.com/drew_peterson.htm – June 01, 2009

    (PRNewsChannel) / Joliet, Ill. /

    A new judge was assigned today in the Drew Peterson case.

    Circuit Judge Stephen White will now oversee proceedings. Will County Chief Judge Gerald Kinney made the decision this morning.

    The defense team representing Peterson wanted Judge Carla Alessio Policandriotes replaced.

    “We’re pleased that we can finally get moving on the merits of the case,” says lead defense attorney Joel A. Brodsky.

    The next hearing in the case is set for Wednesday at 1:30pm CST where attorneys will discuss the merits of sealing discovery and limiting Peterson’s face-to-face contact with his legal team.

  105. Could be, Rescue, but I thought Brodsky had appealed to the higher court on the bond reduction, which he claimed would respond quickly.

  106. Good afternoon everyone. It has been a while. As to who was the locksmith on
    the day Drew and neighbors tried to get into the Savio home, my feeling is that there was no Locksmith called. jmo However, going all the way back to when Stacy went missing, Richard Mimms had made a statement that Drew had given Carcinero a set of lock picks and showed him how to use it.(Prior to the Savio murder) So on the scene that
    day, there were two men standing there that could have opened that door. (Drew and Carcinero) My money is on Carcinero. I think the GJ would have called this so called locksmith to testify by now if it was someone else.

    As to John Paul Carroll, let us not forget that he has been the in-house lawyer while Drew was a Cop for the BBPD. If a Cop got into trouble, he was the go to man. This Lawyer is no choir boy, and a former chicago Narco Cop with an elite unit back in the 90′s that was disbanded due to corruption. His Detective agency in Naperville was the one that Brodsky used to look for clues as to where Stacy may have gone off to. The whole fabricated sightings from Thiland to Colorado, etc. was all BS from the beginning.

    As to the new Judge for Drew Peterson,..well I can certainly see why Brodsky would want this man. Check it out: I hope I am allowed to give a link:

    and

  107. I tried to give a link to this new Judge Stephen D. White. It did not go through.
    Maybe it was to long. You can go to Yahoo and type in Illinois Stephen D. White Judge, wrongful convictions. If you look hard enough you will find even more
    on this Judge. No wonder Brodsky and Drew want this guy, he sounds inept enough to end up favoring the defence in some way..and Brodsky is counting on
    that. That is the feeling I am getting. Here is one of the links..I hope this goes
    through.

    http://www.clr.org/White-Stephen-D.html

  108. think the GJ would have called this so called locksmith to testify by now if it was someone else.

    How do you know they have not?

  109. Prudancejuris, your link generates a 404 error on a general Arizona info website. If you want to email the URL that you are trying to post to petersonstory@gmail.com, I’ll try to figure out why it is not working.

  110. noway406, I was looking over the list of some of the names on the GJ list that
    have testified and most of them are names that I have heard something about
    before. I can’t be 100% sure that there was NOT a lock smith called..but why was
    the name never mentioned before. I do know Carcinero has been called before the GJ. I think I even read that he had moved from Bolingbrook and is now in another suburb..again on this I am not sure.
    Since Kathleen Savio was killed over 4 years ago, one would think that by now that someone would know who this purported Locksmith was and his place of
    business by now. I forget if Policemen are allowed to have lock picks. Lets say they are. Could not Drew have said something to the effect of (To Carcinero) ” Here you use the picks it would look bad if I did this. If anyone asks just tell them I told you what picks to use to open the door..since this is my ex-wife’s house” Just a suppostion on my part and probably all wrong..but I have thought about it.

  111. Maybe it’s my imagination, but I thought the locksmith (company anyway) was known.

    I think the list of names was generated by articles in which the press recognized witnesses by sight.

    Unless he was dressed in his locksmith uniform, I think someone could slip in and out undetected. However, I will say that it is very odd that Drew has never mentioned the locksmith if everything was on the up and up. IMO

  112. prudancejuris Says:
    June 1, 2009 at 2:17 pm edit

    I tried to give a link to this new Judge Stephen D. White. It did not go through.
    Maybe it was to long. You can go to Yahoo and type in Illinois Stephen D. White Judge, wrongful convictions. If you look hard enough you will find even more
    on this Judge. No wonder Brodsky and Drew want this guy, he sounds inept enough to end up favoring the defence in some way..and Brodsky is counting on that.
    ******************

    Maybe this is a judge Brodsky & Company wanted, maybe it isn’t. The thing is, Brodsky has no control over who is appointed by the Chief Judge. Judge Kinney appointed these judges.

  113. For what it’s worth, I just read that Judge White is the one who signed the arrest warrant for Drew Peterson related to the gun charges. So I don’t think Joel would pick him if he’d even had a say in this one.

  114. Prudencejuris, just noticed that you’ve been writing “Carcinero”. The last name of Drew’s friend is actually Carcerano. Think that’s who you are referring to.

  115. Thanks, Noway.

    [snip]

    Brodsky said the charge is related to a technical requirement about the length of the gun barrel.

    “According to what I was told, [the barrel] was three-eighths of an inch too short,” Brodsky said.

    The warrant, signed by Will County Chief Judge Stephen White, carried a bond of $75,000. Peterson must post 10 percent, or $7,500, to secure his release while awaiting trial. A court date for Peterson to appear on the weapons charge was not yet scheduled.

  116. based on the witness list I see no one listed that doesn’t have some other connection to Drew..so unless one of them was the locksmith..or they kept his identity a secret for a reason…I don’t see anyone who could be this locksmith on that list

    There is not only department SOP’s related to Welfare Checks but the locksmith company would also have SOP’s I would be very interested in knowing his identity, his relationship/connection to Drew versus the department, how he was paid, and when he left the scene.

    I know that Drew’s conducting this check is highly suspect to violating department procedure..I know this because I have friends that are cops who have stated there is no way they would conduct this check based on an ex husband or neighbors..that they will through the police and/or concerned FAMILY members…so in other words, If I wasn’t able to be found by my ex..he could go to the police but the police are going to go to my mother and SHE will authorize the welfare check..they would not ask my ex to do so, if they cannot find any of my family to authorize the check they will investigate themselves as to my location, going to my job, my friends, checking jails and hospitals before THEY determine that I could be inside my home injured or worse…seems to me that Drew conducted another unauthorized investigation with this Welfare Check?

    So how did Drew represent himself to this locksmith? Was it as an ex husband…as a husband…as “owner” of the home..or as a cop responding to a welfare check?

    I think that is very important..the identity of this locksmith could put a whole new perspective as to this case and to exactly who could have been involved

  117. prudancejuris Says:
    June 1, 2009 at 3:43 pm

    noway406. I stand corrected thank you. I must agree with everything you stated.

    You can but you don’t have to. ;)

  118. After my squick check-up, here are the judges of the 12th JCC who dealt with Drew in the past:
    Circuit Judges

    Hon. Carla J. Alessio-Policandriotes
    Hon. Stephen D. White
    Hon. Susan T. O’Leary
    Hon. J. Jeffery Allen
    Hon. Daniel J. Rozak
    Hon. Richard C. Schoenstedt

    I am not sure about the rest…

    Hon. Richard Siegel
    Hon. Edward P. Petka
    Hon. Paula Gomora
    Hon. Amy Bertani-Tomczak
    Hon. Sarah Jones
    Hon. William McMenamin

  119. Oh, no, is Brodsky going to flip out again and ask for yet another judge? I don’t think the prior judge did any more than sign a court order or document, and this judge signed the warrant for the accused’s prior gun case, so it looks like it just might not be over yet.

    Although Brodsky now says they can move forward on the merits of the case, I never believe anything he says, since he wigs out so much and is usually wrong anyway.

    We’ll see.

  120. I suppose on paper, he still owned the house.

    But if there was a locksmith, I think whatever Drew told him must have been packed with half-truths and blatant lies.

    Otherwise Drew and his lawyer would have been saying “the locksmith was Larry the Cucumber from Veggietales” or even “the locksmith has asked that we not make his identity public until such time that there is a trial” … if there was nothing to hide.

    With nothing from Camp Marshmallow, I can’t decide if I think there was no locksmith, the locksmith was Drew’s brother, the locksmith was the individual/company I’ve seen posted before, etc.

  121. let’s remember…Drew never contacted anyone other than Mary and Steve about Kathleen

    he never called her family
    he never called her boyfriend
    he never called any of her other friends
    he never called her school
    he never called the hospitals
    he never checked the jails

    how would Drew know that SHE had to be in the house if he never even bothered to check if she could be somewhere else?

    her vehicle was inside a garage with no windows..they had to enter it from the house…so it’s not like her car was in the drive or street and she wasn’t answering her door or phone..so if they couldn’t see the vehicle then they had no reason to believe “she must be inside the house”

    it was also my understanding that not only was Drew’s brother a locksmith that at one time Steve Carcerano was also a locksmith and I agree Noway! if there is no significance to this locksmith why hasn’t he been dismissed by Drew or Brodsky…right now as it stands this “witness” is the only one so far that hasn’t been attacked by them…hmmm? wonder why that is?

  122. Didn’t Brodsky also rule out Judge Rozak when he filed his motion? I could be wrong, but I thought he had used up both of his requests for a change by excluding Judge Rozak.

  123. I think, but can’t say for sure, that I read Joel used up his last choice by pre-emptivley striking Rozak. So I believe he’s out of “Get a new judge. Do not pass GO. Do not collect $200″ cards.

  124. Primetime Exclusive! Drew Peterson’s attorney, Joel Brodsky, on Nancy Grace tonight to debate the murder case against Peterson in the death of Peterson’s third wife and the fate of his missing fourth wife Stacy. Nancy Grace exclusive at 8 & 10 p.m. ET on HLN

  125. What else can he say, Rescue? He didn’t want that female who had signed a child support and custody order so many years ago she didn’t recall it, and now he’s “content” with a judge who signed a felony warrant on his client a year ago. Makes sense if you like shooting yourself in the foot, I would think.

  126. The whole locksmith thing never added up for me either. If he really thought there was something wrong, a COP would not call a locksmith. They would break the door down. If he was so worried about it being him, he could have called someone else at the department to come. It would be quicker than a locksmith. It just doesn’t make sense.

    IMO – there either wasn’t one, or he gave someone else (Steve) a key and called ‘em a locksmith.

  127. The whole idea that he trampled through a potential crime scene never added up for me either. If he wasn’t the murderer we assume he is, he had to know better than to go rushing upstairs as he did, without taking into consideration that someone could have broken into her home and killed her. How did he come to the absolute conclusion that she fell dead in a bath tub, without a stitch of clothes on her or in or around the room, and, of all things, no water in the bath tub.

    I wonder if he ever was the first one on any other death scene. That’s scary to think so, judging by the way he handled his own ex-wife’s death scene. But, then again, he was first on a hanging death of a girlfriend’s brother, come to think of it. How did he ever get to keep his job, looking at the way he is so inept at handling police investigations?

  128. see this is what bugs me, it is evident that this welfare check was not of the norm…the fact that he was her ex husband and there was some serious bitterness between the two of them..the timing of her death as to the property settlement, the way she was found, the state of her bedroom compared to the bathroom SCREAMS suspicion…so why did the investigator from the ISP not look at these factors?

    or did they? and Drew’s alibi’s and the coroners inquest ruling caused them to just shut the case until another reason would be given to open it? Like Stacy disappearing, Kathleen was exhumed about 2 weeks after Stacy vanished, I don’t know it just seems to me maybe the investigators for Kathleen were hoping for something else to happen to justify them opening her case again..how incredibly sad it had to be Stacy being gone for them to do so

    I also found something interesting regarding SC’s account of that night…in many statements to the press he says Drew waited outside..but in one interview he says “Drew was right on my heals coming up the stairs” So which is it? Did Drew enter BEFORE she was found…AS she was found…or After she was found?

  129. Sorry, Rescue, I thought when he requested that Carla Alessio-Policandriotes be removed and asked that Daniel Rozak not be assigned, that was his 2 requests.

    LMAO … I thought I read it in a newspaper article online!

  130. so if he preemptively strikes a judge that would act as one of his motions?

    so that means this IS the judge no matter what? if it isn’t can we expect Joel to motion for another new judge?

    I hope this was his last option…he calls it gamesmanship I call it theatrics!

  131. Yes, Noway, you were right. Ooops, he used his two get out of jail cards. Guess he has no choice but to say he’s content with this judge. LOL, what other choice does he have?

    On with the trial!

  132. I was contemplating why it is that Drew and Brodsky have made it their mission to use the media in their campaign to bash so many potential witnesses as they’ve appeared before the Grand Jury, and how it is that Mary Pontarelli, Jennifer Schoon, and this phantom locksmith seem to have escaped their wrath. These three were either on the scene when Kathleen’s body was discovered or just a few doors away living under his roof. I suppose it’s possible that since all three (assuming you believe the locksmith to be a real living person) have managed to avoid the media, DP and JB just didn’t bother with them. Or, is it because they’re afraid to start anything with these three individuals who may have a different story to tell, about what they saw and heard that night, than Drew’s and Carcerano’s account? Personally, I can’t wait to hear from Kathleen’s best friend, Mary.

  133. I think it’s because Mary, Jennifer and Locksmith have not come forward in the media.

    Joel doesn’t know what they are going to say, so he can’t discredit them until they speak. Otherwise he might make a blunder of enormous proportions.

  134. I do like the surprises of what people have to say.

    Did I not read (in a newspaper online) that the alleged hitman was a cop who had worked with Drew? I just read that Derek Armstrong is saying that it’s Bindy Rock. Bindy wasn’t ever a cop was he?

    I’m thinking I must be all mixed up, because according to Dr. Phil, Derek Armstrong is such a fabulous investigator.

  135. Noway, I saw two stories from people citing two anonymous sources. Personally, I’m going to have to wait for more info. It’s inevitable that the identity of this person will be made public if we can wait. Of course, I want to know right now…

    I do hate seeing this person called an “alleged hitman” though. All we do know is that it’s alleged that Drew approached some person about killing his wife. The person declined the offer, so it’s really not fair to use that term (unless of course we find out otherwise). I’ve been calling him/her a would-be hitman, but that’s probably not even fair.

  136. I understood it was two people, Noway. He remarked to a fellow police officer that his life would be better if she were just dead. And, the other person has indicated that Drew attempted to solicit him as a hitman. I didn’t get the sense that the person he tried to solicit was a police officer.

  137. Glasgow is the one who first coined the phrase “hitman” so I went with that. Since we don’t know any facts, I added alleged, although I wasn’t sure whether alleged was the right word.

    Drew will most likely deny that the man is/was/ever could have been though of as a hitman.

    He didn’t go through with it according to Glasgow.

    The alleged would-be hitman?

    I guess as long as we know who we’re talking about, it’s okay.

  138. I agree Sugarbabes. From what I’ve read, it seems to be two different people mentioned by Glasgow.

    1. A person offered $25k to kill Kathleen Savio one year before her death,

    and

    2. A person who heard Drew remark only weeks before her death, that it would be better if Kathleen Savio were dead.

  139. I gotta stop reading online newspapers!

    This is what confused me. It sounded like one person to me. I think it is because of the “financially ruin(ed)”.

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/05/22/drew-peterson-tried-to-hi_n_206910.html

    Former police officer Drew Peterson offered someone $25,000 to kill his third wife because he thought a pending divorce settlement would financially ruin him, but then killed her himself months later, prosecutors said Friday. Prosecutor James Glasgow made the allegation at a bail reduction hearing for Peterson’s $20 million bond. …

    Glasgow said Peterson told a fellow police officer in late 2003 that he would be financially ruined by a pending divorce, and his life would be easier “if she was just dead.” Glasgow did not reveal the source of his allegation.

  140. Well maybe this part.

    It is worth noting that lividity begins to work through the deceased within thirty minutes of their heart stopping and can last up to twelve hours. Only up to the first six hours of death can lividity be altered by moving the body. After the six hour mark lividity is fixed as blood vessels begin to break down within the body.

  141. A quick 2 cents.

    During water cooler discussion at work, we threw out the topic about Drew and the weekend Kathleen was killed. Out of the six people and some being male, everyone agreed that at some point they would have said to Tommy, “Hey, give your mom a call and see when she’s expecting you back.” or “Call _______ and see if your mom might be over there.” (Especially if no one wanted confrontati0on over visitation schedules.)

    Second point which was brought up, is again about Kathleen’s letter stating Tom wanted to come home after a short time over at Drew’s. The questioning for Tom, should include “about how often did you run back to your own house during a visitation weekend?” (Reminding him that the letter states that he does.)

    If we take Kathleen’s letter as being pretty acurate, then not only did Drew place himself downtown with the kids that morning for his own benefit, but it also kept Tom from running back to the house and discovering his mom earlier in the day.

    We also talked about best “female” friends and think Mary P. knows a lot. If Drew was trying to pin things on Kathleen so she would lose visitation, then a woman would need someone to be watching the exchanges, and someone who could verify the facts of the situation. Did Mary P. ever go to court with Kathleen that we know of?

  142. “Did Mary P. ever go to court with Kathleen that we know of?”

    excellent question! but also…was it HER that was worried to begin with as Drew has stated? Or was the idea of her having TO worry placed in her head BY DREW?

    I’m not trying to be crass…but I’m thinking like Drew…I’m sure he didn’t want her dead body there too long if you know what I mean? and I think he would want it to appear that he’s following the visitation to the letter..so at some point HE must have alerted Mary then Steve of his OWN worries about not being able to reach her

    come on!

    Mary was her best friend..she knew Kathleen had a weekend free and a boyfriend…is it reasonable to believe that after a day into the weekend free of her children that MARY WOULD BE THE ONE CONCERNED??? I doubt Mary would have come concerned unless Drew brought these issues to Mary’s attention..does that make any sense?

    It is safe to say that most people that may post here are female…if your girlfriend had a weekend free to not be home…and one day into that weekend she’s unable to be reached by her EX HUSBAND that that would cause you to be alarmed? You know she has a boyfriend and your first instinct would be to think she’s probably on some wild romantic weekend with him….until the EX HUSBAND pounds on your door and gets you worked up?!!!!!

    Drew’s a calculating SOB…he got one from “her side” and one from “his side” to make this discovery

    Dirty SOB…he knew exactly what to say and what to do to set this up…except he FAILED to do the obvious..and that was….

    to actually LOOK for Kathleen at all other points but in that house!

  143. Dearheart, I totally agree about Mary P. being set up to be the overly “concerned one.” I also will add that If I were the BF/neighbor, I don’t think I would have just gone home and waited because Drew told me to. I would have no reason to do so. I would not have thought death. I do think I would have tried the doors, knocked on windows, called, etc. Mary P. did see Kathleen Saturday evening, so she might have known the BF was going to be out of town. Mary may have known when the boys were suppose to be returned for the weekend. (As good neighbors, we’ve “conveniently” been doing something outside when a soon to be X has brought the children back.)

    It’s also possible that Mary P. was watching the house when Drew arrived. Did she see Drew doing something then?

    Drew HAD to have the body discovered by a specific time, or the smell would have begun to penetrate the contents of the home, ruining carpet, drapes, and the boys’ things.

  144. The prosecution never stated the hitmen was a Police Officer.

    The prosecution stated Drew approached a hitmen to kill Kathleen in 2003 and approximately three weeks before he killed her himself (2004) he also mentioned to a work college (a Police Officer) he wanted her dead.

    The hitman and the Police Officer are two different people and the years are different too (2003/2004)

  145. I agree with everyone that Drews story re discovering Kathleen in the bathtub doesn’t make any sense and him so easily accepting that maybe “he was supposed to have the boys for another day” doesn’t make any sense either for such a controlling and suspicious minded ex-husband.

    Even if he weren’t sure (hmmm) what day he was supposed to bring the boys back, he would not just have knocked on her door and quietly gone back home to try “another day”.

    He would have started ringing around trying to locate Kathleen or harrass her boyfriend to tell him where she was and if he couldn’t locate him either, that would have really gotten his blood pressure getting to his head as Drew is not the type of easy going guy when he considers himself inconvenienced (!!)

  146. Facs, thanks for the update! What else can Brodsky say?

    How many times can he ask for DP’s bond reduction? Go fish.

    Since Brodsky has attended the mock trial, he should have some tips as to how to proceed next.

    Hopefully, they won’t allow media coverage in the courtroom, or we’ll be hearing Brodsky analogies and closing remarks such as, “Life is like a plate of chicken wings…”

    “The only thing my client is guilty of is having an “Addiction” for young chics. My client has an appetite for younger women, in the same way you might have a craving for a platter of hot, spicy chicken wings from a very special restaurant, like mine for instance.”

    From Glenn Selig in front of the courthouse, “I’m on the ground in Joliet, Illinois, covering the Drew Peterson case, but first, make sure you stop by our booth for a sample of delicious chicken wings, and a coupon you can use anytime during the trial. All of “Addictions” wide screen TV’s will be tuned to the special coverage of this trial. Our buddy, Blago, will also be there serving up those spicy platters, and for a “good tip” in his defense fund, he’ll give you the latest, behind the scene reporting of Patty’s island survival experience.” “Wow, I was good. Just a minute, let me Twitter that.”

  147. Good morning everyone!

    Facs said:

    I do hate seeing this person called an “alleged hitman” though. All we do know is that it’s alleged that Drew approached some person about killing his wife. The person declined the offer, so it’s really not fair to use that term (unless of course we find out otherwise). I’ve been calling him/her a would-be hitman, but that’s probably not even fair.

    * * * * * * * * * *

    I suggest referring to this matter as “the contract” or “alleged contract”. This person is another victim of Drew’s who tried to involve him in his murder plot. Wouldn’t-be hitman?

    I’d forgotten that Tom used to go back to his Mom under his own steam on the weekends Drew had him. That detail just crushes my heart.

  148. I think when they get to the penalty phase of the trial, they should roll the video of Tom and Drew and Kris with Tom saying “nothing could be worse than my mom dying” while Ratbastard dares to breathe in the same room.

  149. Good morning, bucket.

    Drew and the sick system have put these poor children in the same, no-way-out position that was experienced by Kathleen.
    I do not wonder that also any witnesses who might have had something significant to tell felt helpless until another tragedy happened.

    I am trying to imagine that Drew comes to me one day and offers 25.000 for killing his wife and I refuse. Would I go to the police? I do not think so. Firstly, he is a policeman himself and I would have to deal with his protective friends. Secondly, his proposal would be no evidence to any court, just a slander (no body = no crime). Particularly, if I had any criminal record and Drew could testify he once arrested me. I would probably have objections with notofying anyone even if this person was finally killed.
    That’s why I wouldn’t wonder if it was really Bindy who had been offered this dirty job by Drew. The reason why he used Thomas Morphey is similar. No reliable witness because of mental issues. He, as a policeman, would be the one to win not a gangster, right?.

  150. Hi Cyrhla!

    That does make a lot of sense. Would Bindy (doesn’t Bindy Rock sound like an Australian destination?) have been called to the GJ just to confirm the other business from years ago?

  151. “Yeah, he’s just mad at me for planting that…er, busting him for all that amphetamine.”

  152. To Writer 9:08pm and Noway, 9:20 pm, thank you!
    So it DOES mean that Kathleen was moved after death, and before she’d been dead for those 6 hours, and I’m NOT crazy! And, just to state the obvious, dead bodies don’t move themselves.
    Just how many times was Drewpy in that house before he was SEEN going in?

  153. With regard to Mary, I can’t wait to hear what she has to say. No only did her best friend have a child-free weekend, but her boyfriend was out of town. I’m sure she would know this as well. Personally, I think Mary may have been afraid for her own life.

  154. bucketoftea Says:

    June 2, 2009 at 4:48 am
    I think when they get to the penalty phase of the trial, they should roll the video of Tom and Drew and Kris with Tom saying “nothing could be worse than my mom dying” while Ratbastard dares to breathe in the same room.

    +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

    EXACTLY – nothing could be worse than their Mom dying and their Dad hiding behind them by convincing these poor children he was with them all weekend (!!)

  155. Guess we’re up to three judges now, JAH, but I think Brodsky used up his two opportunities for a change when he ruled out Judge Rozak. So, it appears that Judge White will be the one to hear the case. I just hope they can manage to keep that bond at $20 million and keep Drew sitting in the Will County Jail for the duration of the trial. I also hope Judge White will rule to put the gag on Brodsky’s mouth now that the discovery information is going to be heading his way. We’ll find out tomorrow how he rules on that one.

  156. I guess I’ve never heard of a pre-emptive motion to dismiss a judge before he was even assigned to the case. I didn’t think that was possible within the technicalities of the judicial system.

    The fact that the openly spoke that they didn’t want Judge Rozek sure makes me wonder why Drew doesn’t like him.

    As far as finding a judge that hasn’t dealt with someone on the police force before – that would be nearly impossible and quite frankly you’d think that would give the defense the benefit since the police officers are usually on the prosecution’s side and the judges would then see that they were indeed taking bad people off of the street.

    Oh well – the defense gets two toss outs and the prosecutin one so hopefully they are both officially done with their count and this thing will move forward.

  157. Does anyone else have a gut feeling that Drew’s bond will indeed get lowered now that they know the remains found by the DesPlaines River are not Stacy along with the dismissal of the special GJ without indictment in Stacy’s disappearance?

    I don’t think they’ll lower it as much as Joel is fighting for but I just have a gut feeling it is going to be reduced.

  158. TAI, this may be one reason Brodsky didn’t want Rozak. From the State’s Attorney Press Release:

    At the request of State’s Attorney Glasgow and Illinois State Police detectives, Circuit Judge Daniel Rozak issued a warrant for Peterson’s arrest Thursday afternoon. Judge Rozak set bail for Peterson at $20 million. He must post 10 percent or $2 million to secure his release while awaiting trial.

  159. TAI – I don’t. His bond was set before any remains were found, and quite honestly, Peterson is acting so bizarrely, even now while he’s in jail, I’m not sure why any judge would be comfortable giving him the opportunity to bond out. Regardless of what his lawyer says about him not fleeing or being an upstanding cop and citizen for all these years, the goof acts so bonkers, there’s no telling what he’d do, IMO.

  160. I guess the only way there would be a different judge is if the judge asks to be removed? Or if some higher power removes the judge?

  161. I think the same, Rescue. Even if he didn’t abscond before, things are certainly different now. There are two bits of tape of Drew refusing to deny he would use a gun against LE, too. That’s got to be a factor. Why don’t they just deny bond altogether?

  162. I was worried about the bond before. Now I think Glasgow has more aces in his pocket in case the judge is too tolerant.

  163. And we don’t want his civil rights violated. Or even appear to be … otherwise some crazed bail bondsman from California might head to Illinois to save Drew …

    cyrhla, I’m with you … wanting Glasgow to pull out another bombshell if necessary.

  164. I have also given some thought to a thing or two about Peterson’s arrest. Care and steps were taken to arrest him away from his home. I realize that LE took into consideration that there were children in the house, but, in all honestly, those young children were subjected to some pretty peculiar situations being around their father, and the cops were called to the home a number of times.

    Immediately after his arrest, Peterson’s home was searched, so I am wondering if LE was looking for any other wayward guns Peterson conveniently forgot to account for in previous search warrants, and if they did, in fact, find one or more. Just what were they looking for? That would be evident on the search warrant itself, no? Finding a gun in the house sure would be a deterrent to lowering the bond.

  165. I’ve wondered too exactly what they were looking for when the house was swarmed on May 7th after Drew was arrested. Does anyone remember seeing LE removing items?

  166. I still wonder about what items Christina removed during her ins and outs of the house. If Drew felt there was any evidence I am sure it was removed.

    I can’t remember if the police took anything from the house during that search, but it sort of runs in my mind that they did.

    As for bratsky, surprise surprise that he was running to the media. I hope he is not wondering why they would want to put a gag order on the case, specifically on him.

  167. http://www.myfoxchicago.com/dpp/news/crime/peterson_defense_oppose_Evidence_Seal

    Brodsky To Oppose Seal
    Discovery Motion
    Updated: Monday, 01 Jun 2009, 5:24 PM CDT
    Published : Monday, 01 Jun 2009, 5:24 PM CDT

    A defense attorney in Drew Peterson’s murder case says he’ll oppose a motion by prosecutors to keep evidence under wraps as the legal process against the former Bolingbrook police sergeant proceeds.

    A newly assigned judge in the case, Stephen White, will hear a state request to seal discovery at a hearing on Wednesday. Peterson’s attorney, Joel Brodsky, says he’ll argue that it’ll be difficult to keep evidence from the public in the high-profile case. And he says he wants the process to be as transparent as possible.

    Peterson’s charged with first-degree murder in the 2004 death of his third wife, Kathleen Savio. Peterson’s pleaded not guilty and is being held in jail on $20 million bond.

    His fourth wife, Stacy Peterson, has been missing since 2007, and he’s been named a suspect in her disappearance.

  168. Funny, the prosecution hasn’t had any problems keeping quiet about their evidence.

    Exactly what process does Joel want to be “transparent”? The building of his case? The jury are the only people he needs to convince that Drew isn’t guilty.

    If these are the arguments he’s going to present tomorrow, I don’t see him winning on that one.

  169. Oh, the media can be ruthless … especially when you “furiously” email them and try to get them to cover the story. :)

  170. LOL@Docsdaughter

    “The only thing my client is guilty of is having an “Addiction” for young chics. My client has an appetite for younger women, in the same way you might have a craving for a platter of hot, spicy chicken wings from a very special restaurant, like mine for instance.”

  171. He loves the press he is getting. For them to tell him he can’t blab to the media is like telling an alcoholic they can’t drink.

  172. Stupid arguments. Does he fear his wife being unable to resist twittering juicy details? Does he know that he won’t be able to keep his own gob shut?

  173. I know a couple ways he can keep the evidence from the public in this high-profile case. Fire his PR man and stop taking calls from Derek Armstrong.

  174. Note to cheryljones:

    I don’t know for sure.

    The ambulance report on acandyrose is a narrative as read over the phone to GVS by an OTR producer and transcribed by acandyrose. I’d like to see the original if anyone has it. I’m not sure what is meant by “molting” in humans.

    On assessment, found patient on left side in bathtub with wet hair and molting and pooling to the right shoulder and left elbow.

    http://www.acandyrose.com/kathleen_savio_030104ambulance.htm

    The autopsy states:
    “Rigor mortis is absent. Postmortem lividity is purple and fixed over the anterior surfaces of the body.”

    http://www.acandyrose.com/kathleen_savio_030104AutopsyReport.htm

  175. Hey Charmed, I agree! That word addiction seems to apply on more fronts with Brodsky than his celebrated chicken wings bars. He’s delusional!

  176. Oh.

    Someone a lot smarter than me believes it should have been mottling and was lost in the transcription:

    Mottling is sometimes used to describe uneven discolored patches on the skin of humans as a result of cutaneous ischemia (lowered blood flow to the surfaces of the skin)

    Yep, I need to see that original ambulance report.

  177. I think Glasgow should bring this quote up during the hearing tomorrow. If anything will prove that Joel has no intention of keeping things quiet and in fact, wants as much media attention as possible, this is it:

    “Prior to the hearing, Brodsky furiously e-mailed media outlets trying to get more publicity for the case.”

    If Joel can base his motions on what he reads in the newspapers, then I imagine the prosecution can as well…

  178. noway,
    I’ll keep working on it. So appreciate your comments! This has bugged me ever since it happened…I just couldn’t figure out why no one else questioned it, and like you, I’m still not sure.
    Onward through the fog…

  179. I wonder… (sorry 1wonder)…

    How does a defense attorney argue against keeping evidence secret during discovery (and before picking a jury) yet also argue that his client can’t get a fair trail due to media exposure?

    Isn’t it usually the defense team fighting for a gag order?? This case is so bass ackwards.

  180. OT – How did this cop pass the police officer test? Don’t you need some intelligence to get on the force? Does he think people are dumb enough to believe this baloney??

    http://www.wbbm780.com/pages/4518801.php?

    Cop says he attacked bartender in self-defense

    CHICAGO (AP) – A hulking Chicago police officer testified that he threw, punched and kicked a female bartender half his size because he felt he was in danger.

    Anthony Abbate (ah-BAHT’-ee) acknowledged on the stand Tuesday that he was drunk during the February 2007 incident. But he says bartender Karolina Obrycka (ob-REYE’-kah) pushed him first as she tried to remove him from behind the bar.

    Abbate says he didn’t know he wasn’t supposed to be behind the bar but admitted that Obrycka had told him several times to get out and stay out.

    He’s charged with aggravated battery. A judge dismissed two official misconduct charges earlier in the day.

    Abbate was the only witness called by the defense. Closing arguments are scheduled for later Tuesday afternoon.

  181. TAI, wow. All it takes is one look at the video of that attack to call B.S. on that defense.

    We’re pretty off-topic with this story but, wow.

  182. Well – my link to the topic is that as a police officer Mr. Abbate would surely never do something as stupid as this because he knows he’d lose his job. I think back to Drew on LKL “I don’t work for the phone company or the power company. And as a police officer, we don’t have the same ability to do things as the common person.”

    Source: http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0804/11/lkl.01.html

    (Did you hear that snap?? I think I stretched the topic a bit too far!)
    :)

  183. Ain’t that a surprise! Guess the judge figured that a 250lb trained police officer shouldn’t be scared of a 115lb woman.

  184. noway406 says:
    The autopsy states:
    “Rigor mortis is absent. Postmortem lividity is purple and fixed over the anterior surfaces of the body.”

    http://www.acandyrose.com/kathleen_savio_030104AutopsyReport.htm

    =================================
    It’s especially confusing when the time of death is – 11:17PM…and the autopsy takes place at – 2:20PM on March 1st, 2004. That seems to be the beginning of the messed up dates and times. I can’t believe that the Coroner Patrick continues to be the Coroner!!!

  185. Officer Abbate?

    No offense, people, but if you’re going to bring up off-topic subjects such as a Chicago Police officer who has nothing to do with this board, how about we do this?

    Spend a moment to consider the family and friends of a young hero, who was just doing his job.

    Police Officer Alejandro ‘Alex’ Valadez Dies After Being Shot In The Head While On Duty

    Thanks everyone!

  186. Chicago cop killed: Police officer clung to life for 14 hours after shooting
    Detectives were questioning at least one suspect, police sources say

    By Angela Rozas, Lauren R. Harrison and Christopher Latham | Tribune reporters
    June 2, 2009

    Police work wasn’t just a job for Officer Alejandro “Alex” Valadez. It was a family calling.

    Valadez was one of three siblings to join the Chicago Police Department, and in just three short years, he had established himself as a go-to police officer in the tough Englewood District, unafraid of challenging assignments or long hours.

    But early Monday, Valadez, 27, was fatally shot, the first Chicago police officer killed in 2009 in the line of duty.

    Police sources said detectives were questioning at least one suspect Monday evening, but no charges had been filed. Supt. Jody Weis said there was progress in the case but declined to be more specific.

    On Monday, just after midnight, Valadez and his partner responded to a call of shots fired in the 6000 block of South Hermitage Avenue, authorities said. Two rival gangs were shooting at each other, one of the sources said, but when Valadez and his partner arrived, the gunfire had ceased.

    They got out of their vehicle to search a nearby lot for weapons and to interview an individual walking nearby, the source said. Then a car pulled up with alleged gang members inside. Someone fired at the officers, who were in plainclothes, striking Valadez in the head and leg, the source said.

    For the next 14 hours, Valadez fought for his life as family, friends, and police officers gathered at his side. They cried and embraced outside Stroger Hospital as word of his critical condition spread. At 2:40 p.m., Valadez succumbed to his wounds and was pronounced dead.

    “He was on a team working on special missions, and today he’s not with us anymore,” Weis said outside the hospital following the death. “That’s going to have a devastating effect upon everybody that knew him, everybody in the Chicago Police Department, and it should have a devastating effect upon all … citizens of the city of Chicago.”

    Valadez’s brother and sister are also police officers, and his girlfriend worked in his district, police said.

    Sources said investigators found the vehicle believed to be used in the homicide blocks away with spent shell casings inside that appeared to come from a .40-caliber gun, believed to be used in the shooting.

    Valadez joined the department in December 2005 and earned a department commendation and 22 honorable mentions, police said. He was assigned to the “06″ car, responding mostly to citizen complaints of narcotics or robberies. It was a special assignment for aggressive but talented new officers, seen as a steppingstone to tactical assignments or detective.

    He and his partner never let up on assignments and stayed hours after their midnight shift to finish the job, said Englewood Cmdr. Keith Calloway.

    Calloway recalled seeing Valadez a few weeks ago at 10 a.m., three hours after his shift had ended, as he worked on paperwork to get a suspected carjacker charged. “These guys never really got tired,” Calloway said.

    “They’d run from hot car to hot car. Just hardworking and dedicated.”

    Valadez had an outgoing personality and was warm and well-liked, he said.

    Valadez is the third Chicago police officer killed in the line of duty since last summer. Nathaniel Taylor, 39, was shot and killed in September while trying to execute a search warrant. Richard Francis, 60, was fatally shot in July in a struggle with a woman who was causing a disruption on a bus.

    Tribune reporters David Heinzmann, John Byrne, James Janega and Carlos Sadovi contributed to this report. arozas@tribune.com

  187. I’m so sorry, Rescue. This young man deserves to be honored in the hearts of everyone everywhere.

  188. Doesn’t Abbate’s case make you wonder why the heck some don’t just plead guilty to begin with.

  189. Hello everyone. Getting back to the Peterson Case; I can’t help remembering that
    right after Stacy went missing, within two weeks or so..(Before Drew took off
    for Wisconsin to clear his head)..he was in Leo’s Bar in Romeoville drinking with
    Mike Robinson, Steve (his Son) and I believe Steve Carcernaro. (What a lovely group) and not one of them ever bothered to look for Stacy in the ensuing months. I also believe it was after Drew had given his Son Steve $250,000.00 or
    $225,000.00 cash. That little meeting of the minds has always intrigued me.

    Besides Drew mentioning that he thought he might be arrested or something to
    that affect and wanted his Son to have money for his kids…I never believed a word of that. I feel and this is jmo.. that this was hush money. I also still feel
    Mike Robinson and Carserano may have been involved in helping Drew with the disposal of Stacy after Drew dropped off Morphey at home. Just another
    guess on my part, but I have believed that for a long while (based on Drews’ lack
    of worry). I feel his Wife may have been driven out of State by one or two of those guys and buried elsewhere or dumped in water else where out of State.

    The Cops were looking at Drew..not Robinson or Carcerano at that time. Could it be that just maybe the body was put in Stacy’s Car (He would not let the officer’s search that car) and then transferred to another car of one of those guys and driven it to Wisconsin and back in less than 12 hours? It has been mentioned on a few occassions how Drew has given money to Robinson who has had a drug habit and Carcerano a gambling habit. Maybe this was a favor
    neither one of them could refuse. I think Steve knows the whole story and is
    keeping his mouth shut. Hmmm Leo’s bar for drinks and chit chat,,I still wonder about that tight little Group that particular night. We all know by now
    how Drew likes everyone to tied to his messes in life. It kind of keeps them in line..but for how long. Just wondering… (Hope I SP Carcerano right this time.)

  190. I think what Buffoonsky’s definition of *transparency*
    in the matter of evidence is this: he wants the names of the witnesses who stated “the thing” offered him 25,000 to kill KS as well as any other witnesses. This way, he has time to launch his campaigns against them. He wants names.

  191. anyone notice the guys standing around watching this woman beater Abbate pounding away at the poor bartender ?

  192. Brodsky wants to try to tarnish and trash both evidence and witnesses in public and to cause as big a fuss as possible. He will have the names of witnesses by way of discovery, and he can research, but I think he really hasn’t got a genuine reason for making it all public…just his and Sells-ick’s profile.

  193. rescueapet Says:
    June 2, 2009 at 5:13 pm

    Officer Abbate?

    No offense, people, but if you’re going to bring up off-topic subjects such as a Chicago Police officer who has nothing to do with this board, how about we do this?

    Spend a moment to consider the family and friends of a young hero, who was just doing his job.

    Police Officer Alejandro ‘Alex’ Valadez Dies After Being Shot In The Head While On Duty

    Thanks everyone!

    *****

    I’m really trying not to take offense but the way this is worded it is hard not to.

    The connection to this Abate case is to give people hope that bad cops do get caught, sometimes do have to pay a price, and to give us a view of how stupid some defense that bad apple cops give are in real life.

    As far as giving respect to the fallen officer. I have absolutely thought about that family today and implying otherwise is completely unfair. I know there are many, many good cops out there and they deserve every ounce of support and respect we have.

    Signing out – People (aka TAI)

    Prayers to the families and loved ones of the missing.

  194. That’s an interesting theory prudancejuris. I’m sure it’s possible.

    Those guys have stuck by drewpy through thick and thin and have kept well away from the media spotlight.

    Another thought, maybe the $250,000 given to stephen peterson was to pay somebody else. Drew probably knew his banking transfers would be looked at, so he gave the money to his son with the BS excuse he used. The son then goes on the make the necessary payments to whomever did some dirty work.

    Just my opinion of course. As I said, with this case anything is possible! I haven’t read about such a convuluted case in years!

  195. Here’s another theory…Steve C. and his wife live next door, to Drew…or very close by. Steve C. and his wife live with HER parents. Her father owns a heating and air conditioning company in Darien, about 15 minutes away. I’m not sure of all the chemicals found within an HVAC company, but I bet they would dissolve bone and teeth.

  196. Well, tomorrow we should be finding out if mum is the word with regard to the defense. I assume the judge will be ruling on the gag order request of the State. If so, no more goofy tv and radio appearances.

  197. Noway, me too!! It’s going to be an absolutely fascinating read when the truth comes out in the trial.

    Does anybody here think that he will finally admit to what he did once he is convicted and has nothing to lose by telling the truth?

    I partly think he might. Simply because he is such a narcissist I don’t think he’ll be able to resist talking about it.

  198. Good evening. Here is a heads up for everyone. Supposedly Mancow @ Cassidy
    will have the “the person on, who was offered $25,000.00 to kill Kathleen Savio”
    WLS tomorrow morning. (Wednesday Morning) This should be most interesting.
    I already feel Joel, Drew, contacted Mancow with some info. In return Joel gets a
    big payday. I can’t imagine a possible witness coming forward with info like this
    unless, he also was going to get good bucks.
    So lets assume for a moment it was this so called Bindy Rock. From what I hear,
    he is or was a very unsavory character, who I think may have spent time in Jail himself. If he was into drugs etc…just how credible do you think he would go over with a Jury. What if Joel and Drew are laughing right now..and somehow feel
    they got a tiny edge over Glasgow? Would this not change the tenor of a lower
    bail amount in Drew’s favor? Or perhaps, could this be the real McCoy who
    has decided to come forward anyway for money and is not under Joel’s thumb
    and scare the hell out of the prosecution..so that Drew would NOT get any lower bail? It would not shock me if Carcerano,..more likely Mike Robinson were to roll over on Drew..but I see this more done in a Court Room..not on a Radio Show. And then there is Tom Morphey, who Drew wanted to set up anyway..and he is his step Brother! Maybe he feels he is justifed in just going for it, (The Money) and feels Drew is owed this..come what may down the line. I would think he would then have to go back into hiding..if it was him. So my
    question is, how could someone who spoke with the GJ be allowed to speak about what they told? Would their testimony still be allowed in? I really do not
    know who is going to show up if at all..but I just heard this info about a half
    hour ago. Aussie, you are correct in saying this case is full of twists and turns.
    We shall know tomorrow. I hate to use this expression, but Mancow is just as much a media whore as Joel and Drew. It all comes down to ratings and money, and…perhaps tainting a prospective Jury pool. I also have no respect for John Paul Carroll..Their is not a thing that this group would not stoop to in
    my book. We shall see. Mancow is on at 9:00am WLS

  199. Oh no. Could they actually have this person or is it more hoopla to get people to listen? Where did you see/hear that?

    BTW PJ, you have some awfully bizarre returns going on in your comments. Are you writing them in notepad and then copying them here or something?

  200. Facsmiley: 12:21am…? I’m not sure what you mean by your statement. I don’t write anything down ever. I just type what I surmise at the moment. Now I will tell you, I am not all that computer savvy like others. If you are talking about the
    spaces in my post..well that is just the way I type. When I post the comment I never know what the end result will look like. Lets just say, I started my computing a bit later than others. I hope I have answered your question. pj I
    do agree, the way the post came out looks somewhat out of order.

  201. PJ, you mean you hit the “Enter” key in the middle of your sentences? Ouch! It’s just a bit hard to read your posts when they are broken up so oddly.

    Where did you hear about the guy being on Mancow?

  202. Good morning!
    I had a strange dream last night. I was sitting in the court watching the (today’s???) hearing and when Brodsky wanted the bond to be lowered, the judge refused saying that there will be no bond at all because the remains recently discovered were of Stacy’s and that he got STR tests results from Arizona PL (sic!)that clearly identify Drew’s DNA on them. Drew said he had never known anyone called Stacy Peterson and that they must have taken him for someone else.

    Can you recommend a good psychatrist to me, please? LOL

  203. Good morning! Hi Cyrhla!

    No, my dear, no psychiatrist; it’s too late for that!LOL
    …but I rang my therapist and he said whatever you do, don’t tune in to Bullboy! He agrees with me that only a hostile or peripheral witness would agree to appear on the radio at this stage (before the gag ruling later on today).Not worth the risk!

  204. Thanks for your advice, bucket LOL. I am not going to listen to Mancow LOL.
    Is it his last chance to sell any news before the gag order? ;).

  205. Morning all
    On the cowman’s “guest” list for today, it lists, among others, Derek Armstrong.
    If you mouse over his name it says: “Broke story that Drew Peterson hired felon, Bindy Rock, as a hitman to kill wife”
    meh
    I agree, that radio program is soo bad, it is extremely hard to listen to.

    Q:Is there a way to extend a gag order to “book authors”?

    Q: If a gag order is in place today, will they be able to show Boobsky on NG tonight if it was taped before today?

  206. Personally, I would like the judge to tell blabsky that no one in this case should be making any more media appearances including his client, PR guy, or book hound. Though I think the gag order will be only for what the prosecution will be handing over soon and blabsky will be able to continue his medial circus routine with information that is already out there. If he does continue, we know he will slip up….he is a walking goof ball.

  207. ‘Hanging Man’ case offers few answers
    June 3, 2009

    By BRIAN STANLEY bstanley@scn1.com
    JOLIET– Who is “The Hanging Man”?

    He was found hanging from a tree by a mushroom hunter at the Thorn Creek Forest Preserve in Crete Township eight months ago, but he was probably there long before that.

    Will County Coroner Patrick K. O’Neil said it was mostly a skeleton his deputies had to work with and they’ll probably never learn how he got out there.

    Technology has been able to provide a few clues about The Hanging Man’s life, but his identity eludes investigators.

    “It’s a mystery, but we want to find out who this guy was,” O’Neil said.

    He was pronounced dead the moment after a deputy coroner arrived at 3 p.m. Oct. 9. His neck had been stretched out. His remains wore the remnants of a white-and blue-striped short sleeve dress shirt, size 32-34 Route 66 brand khaki slacks and size 13 brown loafers by State Street.

    Inside his pockets, the deputy found cigarettes and a silver Zippo lighter with a Polish flag and the word “Poland” on it.

    “What was left of a small black and green backpack that might have been his was nearby, too,” Deputy Coroner Gene Sullivan said.

    Identity unknown
    Following the usual procedures with unidentified bodies, the coroner’s office checked with local police for missing persons that may have matched, but all of those were ruled out.
    “There was one guy from Indiana whose family hadn’t heard from him for a while, so we tried to profile his DNA against that family, but a few months later they’d learned (their relative) was alive and in jail,” O’Neil said.

    Getting that DNA extracted from The Hanging Man’s bones was difficult. The lab the coroner’s office usually uses was unable to perform the procedures successfully.

    Will County Sheriff’s evidence technicians were able to get fingerprints from the “mummified fingers,” but no match was found in any data system.

    On Feb. 23, Sullivan and coroner’s deputy Jim Cardin loaded the remains into a van and drove three hours to the Forensic Anthropology Department at the University of Indianapolis. The bones were soaked for about five hours in a mixture of water, bleach and borax and dried for a week before measurements were taken.

    “It’s amazing what they can tell from those measurements,” O’Neil said.

    The forensic anthropologist, who focused on the skull, clavicle and longer bones in the body, returned a detailed report to the coroner two weeks ago.

    “Cranium measurements indicated he was white, while his height and age were determined from arthritic changes in the spinal column,” O’Neil said.

    He was over 50 years old and between 5-foot 10-inches and 6-foot 4-inches tall. The left base of his skull stuck out noticeably more than the right side. He’d had several broken ribs and his nose had been broken a few times, but those fractures healed long before his death.

    “He was well-muscled and somewhat robust,” O’Neil said.

    “Could he have been a boxer or a hard worker?” Sullivan asked.

    The Hanging Man also had a fixed partial denture replacing most of his upper teeth.

    “The extensive dental work means he either (had) money or insurance, but toward the end of his life, he’d let himself go with cavities,” O’Neil said.

    A toxicologist in Colorado was sent the ball of the man’s femur, which was the best way to determine if anything was in the dying man’s bloodstream as the vessels tightened around it. Nicotine was the only drug that was found.

    When the other bones are returned from Indiana this week, the teeth will be given to a forensic odontologist for a complete dental record that will be put into the system of the National Crime Informaton Center.

    “The hope is somebody in Police Agency U.S.A. with a missing person will have dental records and say there might be a match,” Sullivan said.

    The skull will be sent to the FBI in Quantico, Va., for facial reconstruction. After the lab people have a look, the skull will go to an anthropologist at the Smithsonian Institution. As more information comes in, it will be added to the unidentified man’s profile on the national database of missing persons, some of which is accessible by the public.

    “It gives us the opportunity to look for needles in a haystack,” Sullivan said. “We’ve had four hits on (the system) so far, but they didn’t pan out.”

    Sullivan has also given the information to a reporter for a Polish newspaper in case someone in that country has information.

    Eight cases since ’68
    The Hanging Man is one of eight unidentified cases dating back to 1968 for the coroner’s office. O’Neil said deputy coroners have been working to get DNA from all of the skeletons, most of whom were homicide victims.
    “They were found after the bodies had been exposed too long to provide any clue to their identity,” he said. On May 20, a barge crew working on the Des Plaines River came across a man’s remains near Channahon.

    “He’ll most likely be added to that list,” O’Neil said.

    Anyone who may know the identity of The Hanging Man can call the coroner’s office at 815-727-8455 or Will County Forest Preserve Police at 815-722-8359.

    http://www.suburbanchicagonews.com/heraldnews/news/1604331,4_1_JO03_HANGMAN_S1-090603.article

  208. Sorry for posting the entire article. I just thought that they way they have gone about trying to identify the bones was interesting and would show what they are going through with trying to identify these new bones found. Sounds like it may take a long time.

  209. Derek Armstrong is listed as a guest on the Mancow show today. I have a feeling he is going to talk about his theory that the man Drew approached is Bindy Rock.

    Listening now and they say they are going to “reveal the identity” of the hitman, “the story behind the story”.

    So…I think that’s all there is to that. Unless they try calling Bindy at home for some laffs.

  210. They just asked him if Drew killed two wives and Derek said, “Well I think so. What do you think?”

    He’s citing the immunity deal Bindy got for testifying in February 2008 as proof that Bindy is the guy.

    That appears to be it.

  211. I’m listening too. Guess he’s done.

    He looked at the list of those who had testified before the GJ and assumed (his word) it was Bindy Rock and a “good source” confirmed it.

  212. Mancow: “Did Drew Peterson kill two wives?”
    Armstrong: “Well I think so. What do you think?”

    Certainly is a 180 degree switchback from what he decided at the end of his book, Drew Peterson Exposed:

    Page 261: “He strikes me as a misunderstood man, a good father, a moral enigma, but not a killer.”

    Page 278: “I may have come around to the notion that Peterson is innocent – I’m at least 80 percent convinced of this”

    Page 286: “Peterson…who I now believe to be innocent”

    page 294: “Peterson comes across as convincing, and his story is somewhat more credible than those of his ex-friends…”

  213. Maybe Hosey’s source who said it was a fellow narcotics officer, and Armstrong’s source who says it was Bindy Rock need to get together in a ring in Vegas and fight it out. Mancow can emcee and wings can be plugged.

    Bah, it will be nice to get some real news from the hearing today.

  214. I listened to that Armstrong “breaking news” on the radio.
    He pretty much said “I read it in the paper”

  215. http://www.chicagobreakingnews.com/2009/06/judge-to-hear-secrecy-motion-in-drew-peterson-case.html

    Drew Peterson’s case due back in court
    Story

    By The Associated Press | Wednesday, June 03, 2009

    JOLIET, Ill. | Drew Peterson’s case will be back in court for a hearing before the third judge in less than a month.

    Will County Circuit Court Judge Stephen White is scheduled to hear arguments Wednesday on a prosecution motion to seal discovery findings, among other issues.

    White was assigned Monday to the former Bolingbrook police sergeant’s trial in the 2004 death of his third wife, Kathleen Savio.

    The defense had asked that Judge Carla Alessio-Policandriotes be replaced after she refused a request to reduce Peterson’s $20 million bond.

    She replaced Judge Richard Schoenstedt two weeks ago, after prosecutors alleged bias. He dismissed felony gun charges against Peterson last year.

    Peterson has pleaded not guilty to first-degree murder charges.

  216. snyder73 Says:
    June 3, 2009 at 9:21 am

    ‘Hanging Man’ case offers few answers
    June 3, 2009

    By BRIAN STANLEY bstanley@scn1.com
    JOLIET– Who is “The Hanging Man”?
    —————————————
    Thanks for posting – really amazing how many specialties are involved in identification. This case seems familiar…I live in Illinois and may have read it or perhaps it was on TV.

  217. There was an article about this man hanging from the tree originally posted at the Herald News. I dont have a link anymore but here is the article-

    Remains hanging from tree
    CRETE TOWNSHIP — Officials are hoping the public can help identify a man whose remains were found hanging from a tree in a Will County Forest Preserve.
    The man was found at about 3 p.m. Thursday by a mushroom hunter in the Thorn Creek Nature Preserve about 400 yards southwest of 23450 Western Avenue, Will County Coroner Patrick K. O’Neil said.

    The body was badly decomposed and “could have been there for a few months, possibly all summer,” O’Neil said.

    There were no identifying items found near the body, but a Zippo lighter with the Polish flag and the word “Poland” was found in a pants pocket along with an unknown brand pack of cigarettes.

    “That’s the only thing that was really identifying,” O’Neil said, hoping that someone recognizes the lighter.

    The man is believed to be white, is “upper to middle age” and stands around six feet tall. He was wearing a pair of State Street brand size 13 brown loafers. He also wore a short sleeve white and blue striped button down shirt and a pair of Route 66 brand khaki pants, size 34/32.

    The man also had extensive dental work done, O’Neil said.

    A black and green backpack was found nearby. The backpack was empty.

    Anybody with information is asked to call O’Neil at (815) 727-8455 or Will County Forest Preserve police investigator Steve Dow at (815) 722-8359.

  218. I don’t know what to think. I can only hope Glasgow comes up with something
    better than a “Bindy Rock”, and the judge puts a gag order in effect. I would
    further hope the bail is not lowered for Drew.

  219. I thought Brodsky filed an appeal with the higher court on the bond issue. He seemed to think they would act quickly, but in four more days Peterson has been behind bars for a full month.

  220. Don’t know…would seem sensible to address it now and get it over with. They are supposed to thrash out the card playing, lol.

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