Your Thread – October 14

Here’s a new one for Tuesday folks.

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91 thoughts on “Your Thread – October 14

  1. Some headlines beg for an explanation.

    This one was on its hands and knees: “Governor Blagojevich Takes Action on Legislation that Allows Testimony of Witness who was Murdered by Defendant.”

    Huh?

    The explanation is worth sharing.

    At great risk of destroying his widespread popularity in Illinois (she joked), Blagojevich last week used his amendatory veto power to rush along legislation that otherwise would not have taken effect until next summer.

    What’s the hurry? Some are speculating it has to do with the prosecution of former Bolingbrook police sergeant Drew Peterson — in the disappearance of his fourth wife, Stacy, or the death of his third wife, Kathleen Savio.

    What the governor has done is to ask lawmakers for an immediate effective date on legislation that basically says this: If a judge finds that a defendant has murdered a witness, statements made by the murdered person prior to being killed can be admissible in court — even though it is hearsay.

    As we all know from watching TV, hearsay is almost always a no-no in court. This is because defendants are guaranteed the right to cross-examine witnesses via the Sixth Amendment.

    Some mob figures and gang members have killed their witnesses in the past, knowing that whatever prior statements the witnesses gave to police (or whomever) will be thrown out as hearsay. Of course, killing witnesses also prevents them from testifying at trial.

    What this new law does is discourages defendants from murdering witnesses by making whatever statements the deceased witnesses made while they were alive admissible after death.

    The legislation was initiated by Will County State’s Attorney James Glasgow — the prosecutor who ordered Savio’s body be exhumed after Stacy Peterson disappeared. Savio’s bathtub drowning had been ruled an accident but was reclassified a homicide after a second autopsy.

    Another interesting element to the story emerged when Stacy Peterson’s minister said that she revealed to him that Drew Peterson admitted to killing Savio.

    See where this might be going?

    If Glasgow decides he has enough evidence to charge Drew Peterson with his third wife’s death and a judge is convinced that he had something to do with the disappearance of his fourth wife, Stacy Peterson’s statements to the minister could be admissible, rather than dismissed as hearsay.

    Whew. That was a mouthful.

    Actually, the U.S. Supreme Court recently made clear that defendants forfeit their rights to confront a witness when the defendant is intentionally responsible for the witness being unavailable. This new legislation makes the so-called “forfeiture of wrongdoing” doctrine enforceable in Illinois, along with the 14 other states that have officially adopted it.

    We’ll see whether the hurried-up gubernatorial intervention has anything to do with Drew Peterson if, after a nearly year-long investigation, charges suddenly are filed.

    Maybe there’s another explanation for Blagojevich’s sudden involvement in the matter.

    You don’t suppose he’s trying to get on Illinois prosecutors’ good side?

    Nah.

    Barb Ickes Quad City Times Oct 13

    *****************************************
    Yay Danya! Well done!

    Good Morning! Great simple explanation. DP should be able to understand it himself now.

  2. Hi all,: I think the above is great news for “hearsay” to be allowed in. I also think that Drew
    may be in for a rude awakening, after his Gun trial. Either way, Glasgow wants to be re-elected DA.
    Having the “Hearsay bill” being pushed ahead will bode well for him, and hopefully get Drew on the Savio case at the very least. Either way,
    I feel an indictment for murder is forthcoming
    for Drew. jmo PJ

  3. I have a question about the grand jury.

    If at any point, they felt there was enough evidence to charge Drew with Stacy’s murder, would they have stopped the GJ testimony and just done it?

    I mean, even if they had so and so scheduled to testify, but felt they had enough, would they just charge him without listening to what so and so had to say?

    Or do they have to listen to all the testimony from all the witnesses before doing anything?

  4. Let’s say you just hadn’t heard enough from Derek Armstrong. Supposing you were jonesing for just that little extra sumpin sumpin to confirm even further that he’s a two-faced rat bastard. What? Well you don’t say.

    UPCOMING SHOW: 10/19/2008 9:00 PM
    Host Name: Levi
    Show Name: War on Crime radio
    Show Length: 1 Hour
    Show Description: War on Crime radio presents: Derek Armstrong author of “Drew Peterson: Exposed”, the latest in the Caylee Anthony case, and we investigate voter fraud of the left wing group ACORN.

    http://www.blogtalkradio.com/stations/HeadingRight/True_Crime/2008/10/20/War-on-Crime-radio

  5. Actually, there is one interesting thing about the show. There’s a calll-in number.

    Since interviewers can’t seem to actually force themselves to read the book and subsequently note the discrepancy in the author’s tone in the book from what he presents in interviews, we who do have the goods could actually phone in and call Derek on it, if we were so inclined.

    Call-in Number: (347) 838-9781

    Or you could just enjoy your apple cider, carve a pumpkin and let his little voice sail off alone into the empty airwaves.

  6. Guess I was in “yesterday” mode. Reposting here:

    FYI – Caylee Anthony

    I was just reading on the website of Local 6 News/Orlando. This is so sad. Adding to that, Casey’s mother is beyond being in denial. What a shame that she will not come to grips with her daughter’s involvement in all of this, and would rather put blame on others. Seems that Casey’s living environment just kept her hedging forward to assume the lying ways that she did. I certainly don’t agree with the byline “Missing Girl’s Grandmother Breaks Silence, Says Leaks Are Politically Motivated, since Cindy Anthony has been very, very vocal and supporting her daughter publicly from day one. “Breaks Silence?” I don’t think so.

    Dress In Woods ‘Very Similar’ To Caylee’s; Grand Jury Hears Evidence
    Missing Girl’s Grandmother Breaks Silence, Says Leaks Are Politically Motivated

    POSTED: 12:39 am EDT October 14, 2008
    UPDATED: 8:30 am EDT October 14, 2008

    ORLANDO, Fla. — A grand jury could charge Casey Anthony with murder Tuesday after reports surfaced that searchers found clothing that is “very, very similar” to an article of clothing belonging to missing Caylee.

    Texas EquuSearch reported that they found a size six dress in a wooded area near Orlando Regional Airport during a search for the missing 3-year-old.

    “An article of clothing that is very, very similar to an article of clothing that Caylee was wearing at one time and there is a picture of it,” EquuSearch’s Tim Miller said.

    The dress was sent to authorities for testing.

    more:

    http://www.local6.com/news/17708533/detail.html

  7. Facs: Armie seems to be popping up on the same haunts of Drew and Joel (thank you Glenn Selig). Same radio talk stations, and crimefile dude got his 2-cents in after he was sent a copy of the book. Even Mike & Juliette’s show.

    For what it’s worth, I think the book has come and gone. Maybe not, but after a few days of people realizing Armie was just another sock puppet of Drew Peterson, it ran its course.

    Amazon’s reviewers are laughable lately. Of all of the honest, thought provoking, well-written literature to be had, I am in total disbelief that this book would be worthy of so many five star reviews! Come on, Armie, play it straight. Let the book fall where it may and quit trying to convince the rest of the people that haven’t yet read it that it’s as worthy as Gone with the Wind.

  8. Caylee Anthony – The Scoop Behind The Dress
    If you watched Nancy Grace tonight, you’ll recall that she made a big deal out of the discovery of a dress – similar to a dress of Caylee’s – that was “just found” near the airport. During the show, Grace interviewed Tim Miller, who mentioned that the find had been leaked to a member of the media. I am that member of the media and I can provide you with the details of that find.

    On Saturday, I received an email from an individual in Florida, who informed me that he was with a group who found a child’s dress in an area, not far from the airport – that was identical to the dress that Caylee is wearing in photo #3 at the following web link: http://www.wftv.com/slideshow/news/17399904/detail.html.

    Texas EquuSearch did not make the find. It was found by an independant search group that had helped out in the first search for Caylee.The email went on to describe the item and the fact that the individual had an “exclusive” photo of the dress.

    After receiving the email, I contacted Tim to confirm the find. As you can imagine, Tim was quite upset that the information had been leaked. Not only that, but he was also upset because the information the person was providing constituted a direct violation of search and rescue protocol.

    Tim told me that the authorities did not believe the dress was connected to the Caylee case. He also said that the dress was “too big” for Caylee. As a result, I chose not to publish that information. The last thing we needed was another media frenzy, at a time in which Tim was trying to determine what to do. Grace has since picked up on the find, which is why I am addressing it now.

    I am not going to identify the name of the organization involved, as they should not be judged by the actions of a single person; however, I will say that Tim told me that there are suspicions regarding the origin of that dress and how it ended up in that area.

    ******** ******* ********
    Hi ! Funnily enough, rescue, I’d just read this.

  9. noway406 // October 14, 2008 at 9:57 am

    I have a question about the grand jury.

    If at any point, they felt there was enough evidence to charge Drew with Stacy’s murder, would they have stopped the GJ testimony and just done it?

    I mean, even if they had so and so scheduled to testify, but felt they had enough, would they just charge him without listening to what so and so had to say?

    Or do they have to listen to all the testimony from all the witnesses before doing anything?

    ** ** ** **

    That’s a good question, noway. I haven’t a clue, but I would guess in a case like DP, so circumstantial, that they’d give them everything they had. I wonder who to ask?

  10. Re the caylee dress stuff above, the dress she’s wearing in the pic is a minnie mouse souvenir type dress. There must be billions of them.

  11. LOL, Facs, I posted that link too, but I guess mine went off into never-never land!

    Thanks for the link. It keeps the story in the news, and that’s a good thing.

  12. Now, this IS confusing. One thing says Tim Miller’s group is not responsible for finding the dress and it’s not believed to be Caylee’s; too big.

    Yet, this is what’s quoted on the Local 6 News website:

    EquuSearch reported that they found a size six dress in a wooded area near Orlando Regional Airport during a search for the missing 3-year-old.

    “An article of clothing that is very, very similar to an article of clothing that Caylee was wearing at one time and there is a picture of it,” EquuSearch’s Tim Miller said.

  13. size 6…like a T6? That would be pretty big. A regular girl’s size 6 would be even bigger.

    In the picture she looks about…12 months?

    Do you guys agree? My babies haven’t been babies for a long time…

  14. There is no such thing as a toddler 6.

    They now have 5T and then go to 6 then to 6x, 7, 8, …

    The dress Caylee had like that, she wore when she was 1. According to Tim Miller, this dress is too big for Caylee (then or now).

    Funny though … my daughter is currently wearing a size 6 velvet number from her cousin, now age 15.

    Due to differences in sizes and styles, the dress fits my daughter, who will be 3 in March.

  15. Note: This is not her normal Tuesday attire. Today was picture day at my son’s school and I had her picture taken. She doesnot want to take the dress off until nap time. 😀

  16. Hi Noway

    I thik we have a GJ clue from Florida.
    Prosecution has 80+ witnesses in the Anthony case, but as per leaks they will only have a half-dozen or so before the GJ.

  17. Bucket, I saw where they only had to provide reasonable evidence that Casey killed Caylee. So far, that I know of George Anthony and Nick Savage (FBI) had testified. Maybe a third person did before they broke to lunch.

    They sure get it done fast, don’t they? They are expected to give a decision later today …

  18. Bucket, it’s like being a 6 1/2 I guess … a little more length and width?

    For my nieces, now 15, wearing a 6X was the curse of death. Better to just skip to a 7.

    🙄

  19. I used to work for a clothing manufacturer, and they made certain styles in sizes 4-6X … but the styles in the 7-14 were different.

    The 6x was just bigger than a 6.

    Guess the name Seven was already taken. 😉

    Seinfeld fans will get it.

  20. TODAY’S UPDATES:

    Anthony will turn self in if indicted
    2 p.m. If the grand jury decides to indict Casey Anthony on homicide charges this afternoon, she will turn herself in to authorities, attorney Jose Baez said at his office.

    Anthony stood next to her attorney, wearing a white collared shirt with a Where’s Caylee button, during the six-minute press conference.

  21. Speaking of clothing, whoever decided that putting a label at the waist would be less itchy than having one at the neck, should be fired.

    At least at the neck, they are easier to find and cut off.

  22. Thanks grandam. I feel no pity for her winding back up in jail. I assume even more will be revealed that the public doesn’t even know about, but she’ll get her chance to get her day in court, and her lawyer will get his day to shine.

  23. Hi Grandam

    That always makes me laugh when they say they’ll turn themselves in …what, they’re gonna hold a press conference to say they’re going to do a runner?

  24. Yes rescue, but then you have those “tagless” at the neck shirts that do have the tag at the waist.

    Thanks, but I’ll figure out on my own how to wash this shirt. 🙄

  25. Bucket, I guess it means no need to send the cops to my client’s house and give the protestors more to cheer about.

  26. grandam – I knew what you meant, but just scrolled on by. Yes, you’re right, though, she is looking to avoid that “perp” (thank you to noway) walk.

  27. Oh my gosh, I just went to the Orlando Sentinel site, and they have a pic of Casey Anthony standing next to her lawyer during the news conference, crying. I didn’t think she had an emotional bone in her body.

  28. rescueapet // October 14, 2008 at 1:48 pm

    I think we’ll officially appoint Noway as the head mistress of correctness.
    _______________
    You’ve retired?

  29. rescueapet // October 14, 2008 at 2:00 pm

    Oh my gosh, I just went to the Orlando Sentinel site, and they have a pic of Casey Anthony standing next to her lawyer during the news conference, crying. I didn’t think she had an emotional bone in her body.
    ***************************

    Feeling sorry for yourself doesn’t count.

  30. noway406 // October 14, 2008 at 2:07 pm

    rescueapet // October 14, 2008 at 1:48 pm

    I think we’ll officially appoint Noway as the head mistress of correctness.
    _______________
    You’ve retired?
    ***************

    Wait, I thought I was the heavy hand of “Hey, you’re wrong.”

  31. 😀
    I’m back from the corner.

    Not sure what to make of Casey Anthony’s tears at the press conference. IMO, they think that murder conviction is coming their way, and Jose has told her that showing emotion would be a good thing to do right now, since public opinion is not too favorable.

    I don’t think the tears were for her daughter, that’s for sure.

    What happened to that photo that showed Zenaida, Casey and Caylee together? Did the PIs ever get it?

  32. facsmiley // October 14, 2008 at 2:27 pm

    Wait, I thought I was the heavy hand of “Hey, you’re wrong.”

    _____________
    You still can be.

    I was just joking with Grandam. Some people may have scrolled right by that too.

  33. Apparently nobody told the reporter it was live. Before he came on, the judge was on … gave sealed decision to bailiff-like person and thanked the grand jury members.

    As he handed the sealed envelope to bailiff, he said that no announcement would be made until Casey was arrested.

    According to JB, he said his client would turn herself in, so I’m guessing they will be leaving his office soon.

  34. Actually, he did not say “Casey” … I think he said suspect or something like that. He did not refer to her by name.

    She is the only suspect I know of. 😉

  35. It’s going to be felony murder or first degree murder according to this reporter.

    LOL … they lost Cindy Anthony after she left he house.

  36. Facs, do you know who was in the truck they were zooming in on? At one time they had a small black car on screen, saying it was Cindy Anthony and Casey …

  37. Noway, during the time I watched I just saw the inside of the courthouse for a little and then the reporter outside. After he said that they’d need to wait for the arrest to announce anything, I stopped watching.

  38. Apparently Cindy stopped under a bridge and Casey was moved from her car to OCSO vehicle.

    Channel 9 still has helicopter above Anthony house.

    I thought they were just taking us for a joy ride in the helicopter. They started zooming in on other vehicles too.

    I guess they didn’t realize what had happened and that Casey was moved to another vehicle. Or they suspected it and were trying to figure out which one.

  39. There are over 1300 people viewing the Caylee Anthony thread on Websleuths, so I am having problems reading the thread I was on …

  40. I’m relieved there are no protesters at the house. Of course, maybe that just means they are at the courthouse…

  41. Casey Anthony’s father, George, standing with his lawyer, was heart wrenching. Having to go before the GJ and do what he did must’ve knocked the life out of him. He lost his granddaughter, his daughter, and his family life is in shambles. Poor man.

  42. Casey Anthony In Custody, Charges Sealed Until Her Arrest

    POSTED: 4:31 pm EDT October 13, 2008
    UPDATED: 4:42 pm EDT October 14, 2008

    ORANGE COUNTY, Fla. — Officials with the Orange County Sheriff’s Office said Casey Anthony was in custody Tuesday afternoon following an indictment on capital murder charges handed up by a grand jury less than an hour earlier. It was unclear where she was being held.

    The Orange County grand jury indicted Casey Anthony on a capital murder charge Tuesday in the death of her 2-year-old daughter Caylee. The indictment was to remain sealed until Casey Anthony was under arrest. At that time, the specific charges will be released. Eyewitness News is awaiting that release and will have the details posted on WFTV.com as soon as we obtain them.

    The indictment paved the way for sheriff’s deputies to arrest Casey and send her back to jail. She had been out on house arrest on child neglect charges and check fraud charges. The check fraud charges are in an unrelated case.

    Caylee Anthony was reported missing by Casey earlier this summer, a month after Caylee first disappeared. Investigators said Casey has insisted she left the child with a babysitter and claims the babysitter must have Caylee.

    However, deputies have not found that babysitter. They did find evidence in Casey’s car that shows Caylee Anthony’s decomposing body was in it. Caylee’s body has never been found.

    Casey Anthony’s lawyer conceded earlier Tuesday that it was likely the grand jury would return some sort of indictment against his client in connection with the death of 2-year-old Caylee Anthony.

    Orange County Sheriff’s Office Detective Yuri Melich, who has served as the lead investigator for the case, was the final witness and the grand jury began deliberations around 3:00pm. They returned from their deliberations less than an hour later.

    Source: http://www.wftv.com/news/17705500/detail.html

  43. Casey Anthony Indicted On Murder Charge
    October 14, 2008 – 10 Responses
    4:55 p.m. It is a 7-count indictment against Casey Anthony, State Attorney Lawson Lamar just said.

    Count one is first-degree murder.

    Count two is for causing great bodily harm to Caylee, by intentionally inflicting injury on her or causing the injury to happen.

    Count three is aggravated manslaughter, that as Caylee’s caregiver, Casey failed to give her what was needed for her physical or mental health or to protect her from abuse that caused her death.

    Counts four to seven involve lying to law enforcement during her discussions with investigators.

    “The defendant is cloaked with the persumption of innocence,” Lamar said as he said he would not further comment on process. He said she should not be tried at news conferences or in the media.

    Beary said they are not hear to rejoice in the indictment. He said they will continue to everything they can to recover Caylee.

    Source: http://www.wesh.com/breakingnews/index.html

  44. Good but very sobering news. I don’t have the slightest urge to rejoice. I’m just kind of in awe of the process and the weight of those charges.

  45. It’s strange, it’s something most of us, myself included, believed in and knew was coming, but it sure is a sad day, all around. How is anyone supposed to be “happy” about a 22 year old being charged with murder against a tiny 2 1/2 year old child, and destroying her whole family’s life to save her sorry butt?

  46. Meanwile it’s time for an Amazon sales rank update!

    Currently, 137,106 titles are selling better than Armstrong’s.

  47. It’s never to rejoice. We will discover the same, I think when DP is done. I do have pity, and will have pity but you can’t be happy and feel pity at the same time. It’s another brother/sister doomed (at least in this life), and that is supposed to make us feel bad.

  48. Rescueapet, I agree with your post. I too find it terribly sad and there were just soooooooooo many alternative routes that Casey could have taken. I’m pretty sure her mom would have taken custody for her until her life was together…but to commit the worst possible act is just beyond imagination….and even more so on a child that had so much going for her….knew and loved and trusted that those in charge were caring for her. What an awful tragedy and just beyond comprehension. I am still so positive that even through her upcoming trial her mom and dad are going to continue to be in deep denial….I honestly do not see them coming to terms. That in itself is an awful tragedy, as well.

  49. Lavanda – yeah, on one hand, I guess it’s easy to get mad at her parents and brother for continuing to act as though we’re all in denial and they’re not, but, in perspective, they’ve lost so much in just a matter of months.

    My biggest concern with her parents, especially her mom, is that they continued to be enablers, even after Casey showed a total lack of responsibility and acted more like a criminal than a rebellious teen/young woman. For this, I think, they’re paying dearly. I still believe that Casey Anthony is someone that only comes along once in a lifetime – a dark creature that could kill her own baby child.

  50. I think Bucket- and the rest of you – are right; there is no joy in today’s events.

    But I would like to thank all the regulars here. It really has been helpful to me to come and read your discussions, insights, thoughts – even your (minor) arguments.

    I have been surprised at the very strong emotional responses I’ve had to the cases of Stacy and Kathleen. Having someplace to come and read reasoned (and pretty reliably) respectful give and take has been a big help.

    And, the same is true of poor little Caylee.

    Thanks for being such a caring community. You make me feel a little bit better about all of us.

  51. Aw, that was so nice, coffee.

    As to Stacy and Kathleen, I wish they were both here for their children, and I wish they could speak up for themselves against the garbage that has been said about them. I think keeping their memories in the forefront helps to cut down the ugly things the suspect and his lawyer throw out there. And, hopefully, it’ll keep up the interest so they, too, don’t become unsolved, Will County, statistics!

  52. Please think twice before you go voting somebody into office. There is things I have just read in this article I am going to post that has me alittle uneasy and concerned. My only ADVICE and IMO is to please make sure you think, think, and think again before you make any choices we might regret trying to believe changing from Republican to Democrat vice versa would make a difference just by doing that. I will post this link so you can read. Not saying anything against anybody just saying when I read this article it is making me think twice…….

    http://www.nypost.com/seven/10142008/postopinion/opedcolumnists/the_o_jesse_knows_133450.htm

  53. Sorry, questions4you, but my ‘advice’ and ‘IMO’ you should ‘think twice’ before taking seriously anything you read in the NY Post

  54. I’m sorry. I didn’t mean to sound so rude. I apologize, questions4you, but after living in NY for several years – where the Post is called “Rupert’s Rag” – I have an almost visceral reaction to that paper. It famed for its misogyny…

  55. I’ll admit it: I had to look it up! 😀

    Quick definitions (misogyny)

    ▸ noun: hatred of women

    Thanks coffeeocity for my Word A Day lesson. 😉

  56. After reading more on Casey’s arrest, I have to say that I have a different understanding of my client will turn herself in if an indictment is handed down.

    Cindy stops under a bridge, Casey pops out and gets into another car (allegedly) drven by her bondsman.

    OCSO undercover officer has been following them and after seeing Casey get out of Cindy’s car and into another, pulls the vehicle over and takes Casey into custody.

  57. to put an end to the “inter blog war” ridiculousness I’m just gonna come out and spill it

    so here goes, I Dearheart, known to some as Sarah, am also known as Thelma, DrewMakeMeSpew, PorkCHOP and PollyPumpkinSeed!

    there that should end all this cryptic talk that’s been going around, all these rumors about the mods and who’s who, like any of that matters, none of it does, what matters is finding Stacy and justice being served for these women and their families

    So whoever is on the quest to find out my identity in order to “ruin my life” nice try, I have a fabulous life and you can’t touch me I know what is in my heart and need no one to tell me any differently

    That is all.

  58. noway406 // October 14, 2008 at 9:30 pm

    After reading more on Casey’s arrest, I have to say that I have a different understanding of my client will turn herself in if an indictment is handed down.

    Cindy stops under a bridge, Casey pops out and gets into another car (allegedly) drven by her bondsman.

    OCSO undercover officer has been following them and after seeing Casey get out of Cindy’s car and into another, pulls the vehicle over and takes Casey into custody.

    ****

    Do they really think the authorities AND media are that stupid that they wouldn’t notice that?

    Why did Baez even let her leave his office. I think he should have had her there – as she was there most of the day – and have them come and get her from his office to ensure her safety.

    This switcheroo smells fishy to me.

  59. …or maybe it actually was the bailbondsman in the car and he was going to drive her to LE HQ, Cindy stole a little time alone with her and perhaps afraid of a mob outside the lawyer’s office. Could be…

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